About Urahara....

[crazysmoke]

i have a question about Urahara. He has a physical body right or has it always been in spirit form and we never noticed? cuz i remember him using his soul cutter but i don't remember him leaving his body. So can he use the soul cutter without leaving his body or something?

[Lss]

thats a interesting thing you noticed. haha but prehaps he really does have knowledge of how to use this sword while in a body. he is afterall a very smart person.*would have liked to say something more specific but that would be a spoiler for some ppl here*

[hasukawa13]

There has been talk about him using a gigai like Rukia did. I didn't think we saw him interacting with people who weren't spiritually aware, but we did. There was the scene at the hospital with Don Kanojo. He was able to send Ichigo's soul out of his body with his cane. Later, some people aske dif he was with Ichigo before he surprised him with some swanky soul society tools. Yet it is also possible that he can go out of his gigai and roam about freely. In this way, he would still be able to use his zanpakou.

[ShamanQueenAnna]

I think Urahara is the exception to every rule in the book. He really seems to march to the beat of his own drummer in every respect. I think he would have to be using a gigai...but then does he never expect to go back to the Soul Society? He told Rukia not to use too many fixers because it would hurt to leave her gigai...meh, so many unanswered questions...

[Byakuya]

Sometime during Rukia's capture, they showed this part with these weird ppl (i think they were hollows.. don't remember) but they had Rukia's gigai which Urahara made for her. They were saying how it no one can exist who can make a gigai this special. And also, when Rukia was being captured by, Byakuya and Renji commented on how she even has bones or something. I'm guessing the level of Gigai developed by Urahara is completely different compared to the regular ones... maybe even to the extent where if you stay in the gigai long enough, it becomes fully human; a 100% real body instead of a shell.

[hasukawa13]

Sometime during Rukia's capture, they showed this part with these weird ppl (i think they were hollows.. don't remember) but they had Rukia's gigai which Urahara made for her. They were saying how it no one can exist who can make a gigai this special. And also, when Rukia was being captured by, Byakuya and Renji commented on how she even has bones or something. I'm guessing the level of Gigai developed by Urahara is completely different compared to the regular ones... maybe even to the extent where if you stay in the gigai long enough, it becomes fully human; a 100% real body instead of a shell.

When those weird shinigami were studying the gigai, they menitoned that only someone of a genius level, someone so smart he was bound to get in trouble, could have made it and that certainly describes Urahara.

I doubt that the gigai could become completely human. REmember that only after a few months in her giga, Rukia was already having trouble with it and this was supposedly a top quality gigai. They are mostly meant for temporary use only.

[Byakuya]

When those weird shinigami were studying the gigai, they menitoned that only someone of a genius level, someone so smart he was bound to get in trouble, could have made it and that certainly describes Urahara.

I doubt that the gigai could become completely human. REmember that only after a few months in her giga, Rukia was already having trouble with it and this was supposedly a top quality gigai. They are mostly meant for temporary use only.


Rukia's trouble with regaining her shinigami powers seems to be due to the fact that Ichigo has it.. Now that he lost it all, she is probably regaining it slowly. However, it also seems that instead of getting her powers back steadily while in the gigai, she was commenting on how that body isn't very agile and there were jokes about her doing more exercise.. this is human trait.. She has to train her gigai body more? seems more like she was becoming more and more used to the body, and the body was becoming more and more real. Perhaps if she wasn't captured, in time, it would get even closer to a real human body. Then that would explain the hypothesis of Uraharu using a advanced gigai himself which was kicking Ichigo's butt.. remember shinigami are only souls, they don't have real bodies anymore. This is the only way Uraharu can live in the human world.

[Lst2touchdasky]

hasnt this and many other thread topics been discussed in previous made topics on then 2nd and 3rd page?

I think this was discussed in the "suspicsions of a simple shopkeeper" thread

[Byakuya]

probably =D

but no one brought it back up... so...

[hasukawa13]

hasnt this and many other thread topics been discussed in previous made topics on then 2nd and 3rd page?

I think this was discussed in the "suspicsions of a simple shopkeeper" thread

Nope...the suspicions one was when I had my little theory about Urahara being the mastermind behind all this SS stuff. This is more about how Urahara in able to live in the physical world. Though some stuff does seem to come back into discussion when talking about certain characters.

[boro]

interesting. Urahara has a physcal body because he helped Ichigo when that TV freak show came to town and people saw him

[shunzhi]

plus he is banished into the human world...for being to human? :)

[Abaraii Renji]

Hmm I seem to remember Urahara being the found of the Soul Society Research Group thing. He is teh Genius. He does things others cannot.

[k_angel_iii]

I've been wondering whether Urahara might be a mastermind (not necessarily evil but one none the less).

Rukia got her gikai (sp?) from him and she expected to recover from her powers but never seemed to. Is it possible that Urahara gave her a shell that would prevent her from getting back her powers. Eventually, Shinigamis would come for her but by that time she would have grown attached to some humans and vice versa. He would then train those who want to save her to go do him deeds. Any ideas or contributions?

[Windúril]

Actually, I don't think Rukia has her powers anymore because she gave all of them to Ichigo, and those powers she gave to him were annihilated by Byakuya.

[sai]

maybe hez like ichigo and hez really a real person?

[kunoichi]

maybe hez like ichigo and hez really a real person?
who, urahara??? he's from soul society, thus, a soul. besides that, he's way too old to be human.

[lazykrnkid43v3r]

he's a spirit all the time. you see it in some chapter where the weird dude that thinks he's saving spirits by putting the cane in teh hole i nthe chest comes out. nobody notices urahara except for ichigo and teh spirit summoner or watever dat fag weird guy.

[ccongdon]

Actually, I don't think Rukia has her powers anymore because she gave all of them to Ichigo, and those powers she gave to him were annihilated by Byakuya.


Hrm... I'd find it hard to believe that Rukia has completely lost her powers.

Byakuya didn't destory Rukia's Death God powers, but rather the Soul Link and Soul Rest, the 2 parts connecting Ichigo to his immense spirit power and Rukia's Death God powers.

When the link was destroyed, I assume that the powers would go back to Rukia. Maybe since she was in prison, her powers weren't returning (heh prisoners, why would they let them gain power?). Now that she is outside the prison, her powers should start coming back.

I think the question would be just how fast?

On another Note, Rukia did start getting SOME power back (limited demon magic), just Ichigo's innate spirit power was so strong it was holding onto it very strongly.

[ccongdon]

Now in response to the general Topic.

I think the reason he can exisit so naturally in the Human world has something to do how the Soul Society banished him.

I think the SS set it up, so he could still assist them in minor ways (provide faux bodies for the wounded death gods that needed them and etc.) How else would Rukia have such a contact with him?

What I really want to know about Urahara, whats the story around his banishment? And whats his power level compared to the other captians?

[Manjisan]

(sword issue) To note, a person high in spiritual energy can touch and even kick spirits. You don't need to be a spirit to hold the Zanpakutou, probably.

[Jade]

Rukia's power theory: I think her 'shinigami' powers are gone. Like Windúril stated previously, Byakuya completely destroyed Rukia's powers through Ichigo. I doubt anything that's been annihilated (spelling?) can still be regain. Yes, Rukia can still use Demon Arts. But, perhaps that ability isn't connected to her shinigami powers at all. Maybe, she was born w/ some spiritual powers of her own. Remember in chapter 98 page 8, Renji commented that Rukia has her own spiritual powers like he does. It's a scene in which she was showing those 3 other kids some magic & Renji said that he didn't like the fact that she can do the same thing as he does.

Rukia's gigai: I think a gigai is capable of being attach to the current inhabitant permanently the longer that inhabitant stays in it. Recall in the anime or manga (did it appear in the manga?) when Byakuya & Renji appeared looking for Rukia, Renji was using some device to scan Rukia. He said that her neural attachment or whatever was 88.5% or something. Neural means brain/brain waves. So, I think that would indicate that Rukia's attachment to her gigai was at 88.5% and when it become 100%, then there's no going back to being a spirit.

Urahara: He's been banished to the human world for god knows how long. I'm sure during that time he would have use a gigai just to mingle w/ normal people & probably discard it whenever he choose to. It's obvious that he wasn't strip of his powers b/c he can still used demon arts and he still have the ability to use his zanpaku sword. Which I find it hard to believe b/c he was banish by soul society & I would assume that they would have strip him of his powers before casting him to the human world. Perhaps, he wasn't banish at all. Maybe he left on his own free will & Yoruichi (spelling?) followed him.

These are just my theory :p

[no_jas]

I think u're right, Urahara left on his own accord. as did yoruichi; wasn't it stated by rukia somewhere that Urahara would get (severly) punished if anyone found out? Either way Yoruichi did leave on her own accord, as staded when what was her name asked why she didn't take her along...

[Odnar]

But if he left on his own accord why would the stop him from coming back in? I mean there could be some weird rule that if you leave for to long or something like that they would exile you. But I don't see why they would do that really.

[Jade]

The thing is...if he was banish from soul society, why would they exile him to the human world w/ his powers still intact? I would assume they would have strip him off it, before hurling his butt out of soul society. Perhaps the theory about being attach to the gigai body permanently plays a part somewhere. It's possible that Urahara was strip of all his powers before he was cast to the human world and ended up using a gigai body b/c he's a spirit afterall. Then when his powers came back, he can't leave his gigai body anymore b/c he's been in it too long. Ah, I don't know. This is just one of my wild guess. Maybe what you said about the rule thing is right though.

[Saffire]

The thing is...if he was banish from soul society, why would they exile him to the human world w/ his powers still intact? I would assume they would have strip him off it, before hurling his butt out of soul society. Perhaps the theory about being attach to the gigai body permanently plays a part somewhere. It's possible that Urahara was strip of all his powers before he was cast to the human world and ended up using a gigai body b/c he's a spirit afterall. Then when his powers came back, he can't leave his gigai body anymore b/c he's been in it too long. Ah, I don't know. This is just one of my wild guess. Maybe what you said about the rule thing is right though.He wasn't stripped of his power because he was smuggled out by Yoruichi before anything could happen. :p

I also think Rukia's power is completely gone. Go way back to Chapter 1 and look at Rukia after the power exchange. Her uniform had turned white. Also, soul cutters appear to be deeply linked to a person's spiritual power, and she no longer has one.

[Jade]

He wasn't stripped of his power because he was smuggled out by Yoruichi before anything could happen. :p

Eh? Is that the reason why she went w/ Urahara? Hmm...I guess that could be, since we know she DID follow him to the human world. Either way, that would be awesome :D


I also think Rukia's power is completely gone. Go way back to Chapter 1 and look at Rukia after the power exchange. Her uniform had turned white. Also, soul cutters appear to be deeply linked to a person's spiritual power, and she no longer has one.

So, you don't think she has any spiritual power left? But, how could she use Demon Arts if she doesn't have any? My guess is that Rukia has her own inborned spiritual power. I mean, on ch98 page 8, Renji stated that she has spiritual power just like him. Perhaps, ALL shinigami has this inborn spritual power & even if they loose their 'shinigami' ability, they're still able to use some magic.

[Gaia]

Why does everyone think Rukia's powers are gone? I seem to recall Renji saying something when he runs into Ichigo in the SS about how does he still possess Shinigami powers when they should have returned to Rukia already. I think all that happened is that Ichigo's ability to access his spirital power was destroyed, otherwise how would he be able to access it again after the training. Rukia has been kept in places that are designed to supress spirital power so they can't be used to allow the person to escape. Remember Rukia's collaspe after Byakuya pulled back his spirital power after Ichigo got carried off by Yoruichi. She made some comment about being in a place that supresses all spirital power, so she would not have felt any of the intense spirital power from the fights outside, until she went outside.

[Jade]

Why does everyone think Rukia's powers are gone? I seem to recall Renji saying something when he runs into Ichigo in the SS about how does he still possess Shinigami powers when they should have returned to Rukia already. I think all that happened is that Ichigo's ability to access his spirital power was destroyed, otherwise how would he be able to access it again after the training. Rukia has been kept in places that are designed to supress spirital power so they can't be used to allow the person to escape. Remember Rukia's collaspe after Byakuya pulled back his spirital power after Ichigo got carried off by Yoruichi. She made some comment about being in a place that supresses all spirital power, so she would not have felt any of the intense spirital power from the fights outside, until she went outside.

Rukia's shinigami powers were all transfered to Ichigo. When Byakuya & Renji arrived to fetch Rukia, Byakuya destroyed ALL the shinigami powers that Ichigo was using at that time, which is Rukia's. The shinigami powers that Ichigo attained from his training w/ Urahara was his own, not Rukia. Renji & Byakuya doesn't know that Ichigo has his own shinigami powers. Both of them thought that he's still using Rukia's. Maybe that's why Renji said that killing Ichigo will transfer Rukia's powers back to her.

I think you might be right about the place where she was kept. That might be the reason why her powers hasn't manifested yet. Also, if it's not the place, it might be the collar device she's still wearing that supresses her powers.

[Gaia]

I can't find where it says that Rukia's powers were destroyed, and I just checked both the manga and the anime of that scene after Byakuya has defeated Ichigo. All that's said is the 2 areas that enable spirital power are destroyed, not the actual spirital power.

[Saffire]

So, you don't think she has any spiritual power left? But, how could she use Demon Arts if she doesn't have any? My guess is that Rukia has her own inborned spiritual power. I mean, on ch98 page 8, Renji stated that she has spiritual power just like him. Perhaps, ALL shinigami has this inborn spritual power & even if they loose their 'shinigami' ability, they're still able to use some magic.Her shinigami powers, not her spiritual powers. We know she had spiritual power long before she was a shinigami, so it has to be separate to some degree.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think she is no longer a shinigami. She's just a spirit with some power.

I can't find where it says that Rukia's powers were destroyed, and I just checked both the manga and the anime of that scene after Byakuya has defeated Ichigo. All that's said is the 2 areas that enable spirital power are destroyed, not the actual spirital power.It's not said anywhere. However, it's a safe inference, at least I think so.

[Jade]

I can't find where it says that Rukia's powers were destroyed, and I just checked both the manga and the anime of that scene after Byakuya has defeated Ichigo. All that's said is the 2 areas that enable spirital power are destroyed, not the actual spirital power.

In the anime, it would be during his first training (episode 18, I think). This is when Urahara separated Ichigo's spirit from his body. He said that Ichigo is now a normal human spirit b/c the 2 areas (can't recall what they are called) where destroyed by Byakuya. In the manga, it's the same. Look at chapter 59 page 14, bottom panel.

I don't think that Rukia's 'spiritual' powers are destroyed since she's still able to use Demon Arts. I think what's destroyed his her 'shinigami' powers. I think every shinigami has an inborn spiritual power, which enables them to become shinigami. Maybe, having spiritual power is one of the requirements in order to enter the shinigami academy.

[Kikintae]

I don't think Rukia's powers is gone either. It might be in a low state right now since Ichigo gulped most of it but I doubt that it's all gone.

[Gaia]

In the anime, it would be during his first training (episode 18, I think). This is when Urahara separated Ichigo's spirit from his body. He said that Ichigo is now a normal human spirit b/c the 2 areas (can't recall what they are called) where destroyed by Byakuya. In the manga, it's the same. Look at chapter 59 page 14, bottom panel.

That just says that those 2 areas are destroyed, not that the shinigami powers are destroyed. Since Rukia's powers weren't his to begin with, it makes sense they would leave as soon as his ability to use those powers was gone. Basically I think that destroying those 2 areas seals off a soul's ability to access their spirital/shinigami powers, rather than destroys them. Ichigo's ability to regain his probably had something to do with the fact that he was using Rukia's shinigami powes, and the fact that he is still human may also play a part.

[Jade]

That just says that those 2 areas are destroyed, not that the shinigami powers are destroyed. Since Rukia's powers weren't his to begin with, it makes sense they would leave as soon as his ability to use those powers was gone. Basically I think that destroying those 2 areas seals off a soul's ability to access their spirital/shinigami powers, rather than destroys them. Ichigo's ability to regain his probably had something to do with the fact that he was using Rukia's shinigami powes, and the fact that he is still human may also play a part.

Umm..the point that Urahara told him that he now have a human spirit after he separated Ichigo from his body, kind of give you an idea that the shinigami powers he was using before is gone, not supress or whatever. Check ch56 page 17. In it, Byakuya said that hitting those 2 vital areas will leave no more shinigami powers, not even a speck of it.

[Gaia]

Umm..the point that Urahara told him that he now have a human spirit after he separated Ichigo from his body, kind of give you an idea that the shinigami powers he was using before is gone, not supress or whatever. Check ch56 page 17. In it, Byakuya said that hitting those 2 vital areas will leave no more shinigami powers, not even a speck of it.

And that shinigami power he was using was Rukia's. That was what was gone, not his own as that hid away and let Rukia's power take it, to prevent itself from being lost from the soul's who power it is (if that makes sense).

This would be so much easier if it was just made clear if Rukia has her powers back, and what exactly it means when those 2 areas are hit.

[Windúril]

Hrm... I'd find it hard to believe that Rukia has completely lost her powers.

Byakuya didn't destory Rukia's Death God powers, but rather the Soul Link and Soul Rest, the 2 parts connecting Ichigo to his immense spirit power and Rukia's Death God powers.

When the link was destroyed, I assume that the powers would go back to Rukia. Maybe since she was in prison, her powers weren't returning (heh prisoners, why would they let them gain power?). Now that she is outside the prison, her powers should start coming back.

I think the question would be just how fast?

On another Note, Rukia did start getting SOME power back (limited demon magic), just Ichigo's innate spirit power was so strong it was holding onto it very strongly.

The hakusui is not a link to Rukia's powers...it was the heart of her powers given to Ichigo. He destroyed it. Poof. No more powers.

[Gaia]

The hakusui is not a link to Rukia's powers...it was the heart of her powers given to Ichigo. He destroyed it. Poof. No more powers.

You don't know what overall affect it has on Rukia's powers with her powers being in someone else at the time.

[Tsukiyomi]

Eep. seriously, it would truly suck if rukia really lost all of her powers. maybe rukia can still recover and develop... er, more shinigami powers? either way, even if her shinigami powers returned, they would be vastly overshadowed by ichigo and pretty much everyone else. She couldn't even release her sword to the second form before she met ichigo, so there's no chance she can stand up to captains or anything. Although itd be really cool if she exploded with super strong shinigami powers and kicked ichimarus ***. ^_^

[Windúril]

You don't know what overall affect it has on Rukia's powers with her powers being in someone else at the time.

But it's ALL her Shinigami powers. That's a FACT. And all of the Shinigami powers Ichigo was using at the time, namely Rukia's, were destroyed by Byakuya. That means no Shinigami powers are left to return to her.

[Gaia]

And I still say it's not clear that her powers have been destroyed. I haven't seen anything to make me think otherwise. Until I do, I will continue to believe that she could still get her powers back.

[Windúril]

Um...ok. Though really most of things talked about here haven't been proven yet, but whatever. It's cool if you want to believe it...it's not like it states it flat out in the manga.

[Gaia]

It doesn't state it flat out either way, which is why I'm happy to believe what I want to believe, and happy for you to believe what you believe. Besides, what good is a forum if you can't discuss differing opinions on things :D

[raikiri]

She couldn't even release her sword to the second form before she met ichigo, so there's no chance she can stand up to captains or anything.
She couldn't even do 1st release, IIRC. Nothing against Rukia but she was a crappy shinagami.

[Gaia]

She couldn't even do 1st release, IIRC. Nothing against Rukia but she was a crappy shinagami.

That's based on little evidence, since we hardly got to see what she was like as a shinigami before she was forced to put herself in a situation where she got so badly injured and ended up having to give Ichigo her powers.

[Manjisan]

Little evidence but that she couldn't do much against a Hollow, whereas some one who could release their sword wouldn't need to throw their body in peril just to stop a fairly weak Hollow is pretty evident.

[Gaia]

She wasn't expecting Ichigo to do what he did, which left her no time to do anything like that. It was all she could do just get inbetween Ichigo and the hollow before Ichigo was killed. Remember she had never meet a human before who could see her, and so she wouldn't know how he would react as she had never had this problem before. Ichigo is very impulsive and difficult to predict sometimes. Especially when you've never seen/met him before.

[raikiri]

She wasn't expecting Ichigo to do what he did, which left her no time to do anything like that. It was all she could do just get inbetween Ichigo and the hollow before Ichigo was killed. Remember she had never meet a human before who could see her, and so she wouldn't know how he would react as she had never had this problem before. Ichigo is very impulsive and difficult to predict sometimes. Especially when you've never seen/met him before.
First release happens quick. Say the name, boom it happens. If she had it, she should have used it then. Also she said that she had no prayer in competing with Renji when Renji was holding back his power by a factor of 5 in human realm. That means she's way down there in the seats, because 3rd seated Shinagami (Ikkaku) are able to compete with VCs like Iba.

I think it would also be kinda dumb if Rukia suddenly got a power boost during this war thing. The helpless damsel in distress thing is annoying, but irrational power boosts bug me even more.

[Windúril]

First release happens quick. Say the name, boom it happens. If she had it, she should have used it then. Also she said that she had no prayer in competing with Renji when Renji was holding back his power by a factor of 5 in human realm. That means she's way down there in the seats, because 3rd seated Shinagami (Ikkaku) are able to compete with VCs like Iba.

I think it would also be kinda dumb if Rukia suddenly got a power boost during this war thing. The helpless damsel in distress thing is annoying, but irrational power boosts bug me even more.

Well actually, Ikkaku is most likely the only third seat who could compete with other VCs, and that's because of the 11th division: I don't particularily think Yachiru made Vice Captain rank for much else than her bond with Kenpachi. Even if she is one the genuine Vice Captain levelf or something other than speed, the 11th division is the strongest division and it can be expected Ikkaku could fight with at least Iba who he probably has sparred with before.

[Gaia]

First release happens quick. Say the name, boom it happens. If she had it, she should have used it then. Also she said that she had no prayer in competing with Renji when Renji was holding back his power by a factor of 5 in human realm. That means she's way down there in the seats, because 3rd seated Shinagami (Ikkaku) are able to compete with VCs like Iba.

I think it would also be kinda dumb if Rukia suddenly got a power boost during this war thing. The helpless damsel in distress thing is annoying, but irrational power boosts bug me even more.

That's if you think to go for first release. She had a split second discion to make and going for first release probably didn't cross her mind at the time. Plus we don't know what it is, and Ichigo could have been caught in it if she had done it if it was something big, or wide effect.

I hate the damsel in distress thing as well (its why I refuse to believe her shinigami powers are gone until i get absolute proof). Just as I'd hate her to suddenly be more powerful than what she was before Ichigo took her powers. Of course we don't know how strong she is, so unless someone who knows how powerful she is commented that she's more powerful, we wouldn't know.

[raikiri]

Ok what I'm trying to say is that Rukia wasn't as strong as Renji when he was powered down by a factor of 5, so if she gets back her powers and suddenly reaches VC level (in other words, becomes a major factor in the fighting), I'd be irritated. Ichigo's random power boosts are enough to irk me.

[Gaia]

Rukia had no means of fighting against Renji in the scene due to her lack of powers. But I don't think she's as powerful as he is even with her shinigami powers. Ichigo's power boost aren't sudden. He's always had that power, just never had the means of accessing and controlling that power. I see the training as learning to access it at will, and being in control of it.

[Windúril]

Well it's not a matter of opinion. Rukia stated like raikiri said that she wasn'ta match for Renji, and he was using 1/5th of his full power.

There is some evidence to suggest Rukia at least was seated. I may be looking to much into it, but since she seemingly spent a lot of time with not only Kaien, but Kiyone and Sentarou who are both third seats, it's reasonable to assume she had a seated position of her own.

[MSG Johnny]

I agree that Rukia is probably no match for Renji in terms of power. At best she's an officer in the 13th division. Renji has Bankai now after all. But I suspect that if they really did fight, Renji will lose simply because he loves her.
:p

[raikiri]

Yeah from what I understand, high ranking officers don't do lowly stuff like patrol, especially only to fight weak hollows like the one which first attacked Ichigo. It's just too hard for me to imagine Rukia being a low ranking Shinagami and suddenly being able to fight other VCs like Kira or Renji.

[Windúril]

Well what determined when a Shinigami has to do patrol? I believe you're right in that higher level Shinigami don't have to, but here she is drinking with the Vice Captain and two third seats, so my question is why wasn't she on duty patrolling an area the entire time?

EDIT: Oh excuse me, apparently Sentarou and Kiyone weren't third seats at that point, because Kaien's wife was. So maybe a little lower. But still. I don't know why someone who isn't seated would get to converse with a Vice Captain unless it was for punishment (Hanatarou with Unohana).

[Kikintae]

Hanatarou is seated. I think he's the 7th seat.

I think it's because Rukia was new at that time. She wasn't even in the gotei 13 for her skills, she was promoted because she was a noble. There was no experience, nothing. I don't think they would send her out when she's obviously weak and a noble. She was probably trained by her group before they can send her out to do patrol.

Aye, Kaien was not a regular vice-captain, he's an exception. From my impression, he's a person who doesn't give a crap about ranks or rules--Byakuya and Ukitake also said this. I think he's friendly with everyone, including non-seated shinigamis.

[Faraday]

Rukia did have a seat, didn't she? but it was a low-ish one which dissapointed Byakuya, me thinks.

[Saffire]

Rukia did have a seat, didn't she? but it was a low-ish one which dissapointed Byakuya, me thinks.No, in that scene she said she was unable to obtain a seated position.

[Faraday]

Oh yeah, I just re-read it. ^_^;

[Jade]

It's a little odd that Rukia isn't seated upon entering the 13th division. Afterall, she got in via the Kuchiki family's nobility. Why not place her as a seated officer right of the bat? Btw, does anyone have a theory as in why she was hurriedly graduated from the academy? Also, why did they placed her in the 13th division eventhough there are other divisions?

[Kikintae]

The nobles are assumed to be talented--from what Byakuya said. "The members of the nobles are always exceptionally talented." I think that they assumed since Rukia is part of the nobles, even if she's only adopted, that she would be talented as a shinigami--hence, her graduating from the academy before Renji. However, she still have to prove her worth to be seated officer. Just like Byakuya. He's not a captain because he's a noble, he's awfully powerful. Or the reason for her graduation could be because she's going to be adopted as a noble, she would have to prove her worth as a noble and that means, earning some kind of recognition in soul society as soon as possible.

About the 13th division, I think it's random since they still don't know the level of her strength or her specialty. Heck, I don't know what's the specialty for the 13th division is. I only know that the 4th is medic and the 11th is combat.

[Windúril]

Hanatarou is seated. I think he's the 7th seat.

I think it's because Rukia was new at that time. She wasn't even in the gotei 13 for her skills, she was promoted because she was a noble. There was no experience, nothing. I don't think they would send her out when she's obviously weak and a noble. She was probably trained by her group before they can send her out to do patrol.

Aye, Kaien was not a regular vice-captain, he's an exception. From my impression, he's a person who doesn't give a crap about ranks or rules--Byakuya and Ukitake also said this. I think he's friendly with everyone, including non-seated shinigamis.

My bad about Hanatarou. I thought he was like 20th seat or something.

I doubt that. After you're taken from the Academy, I'd assume you would be able to kill the Hollows that break into the world easy, so why not just send her out to patrol from the beginning?

Well sure he can be friendly, but Rukia talks as if they often met. "When I was with Kaien-dono, everything felt so right." That speaks to a relationship that's more than a superior being friendly with a subordinate.

[MSG Johnny]

Well, there's no evidence that says that she was an officer in the 13th division. However, from the internal conversations that Rukia has when confronting Renji on Earth, it seems that Rukia and Renji were not that far apart in terms of rank. (Hence she was surprised to see Renji as VC.)

So from that I'm guessing that Rukia was an officer in the 13th division by the time she met Ichigo. An officer not that far away from being VC. Maybe 4th or 5th.

[raikiri]

Heck, I don't know what's the specialty for the 13th division is. I only know that the 4th is medic and the 11th is combat.
13th is communications I believe. Those guys with the silly fast food hats who run around with urgents news, they're 13th IIRC. At least Rukia wasn't one of those guys.

Wouldn't it be nuts if Rukia was the VC of the 13th? It's never been said who the current VC is, right? You'd think that a VC would be able to kill those low level hollows in a flash though.

[Faraday]

Maybe Ukitake hasn't chose another one after Kaein died. I don't think it would be Rukia though. Maybe it's one of those two that always hang around with him.

[Kikintae]

My bad about Hanatarou. I thought he was like 20th seat or something.

I doubt that. After you're taken from the Academy, I'd assume you would be able to kill the Hollows that break into the world easy, so why not just send her out to patrol from the beginning?

Well sure he can be friendly, but Rukia talks as if they often met. "When I was with Kaien-dono, everything felt so right." That speaks to a relationship that's more than a superior being friendly with a subordinate.

But she didn't graduated properly.

Yeah, it's kind of strange that Kaien seemed to pay more attention to Rukia. Shrug. Maybe he sensed that she have some internal problems. Or maybe he knew how cold Byakuya is..it seems to me that Kaien and Byakuya may have been friends before. But that's only my speculation, so I have no clue. :D

[edit] Whoa..is the decision to choose their vice-captain up to the captain? I would have thought Byakuya wouldn't have picked Renji though...

[Windúril]

According to the charts, there hasn't been a replacement for Kaien.

It doesn't really matter that she didn't graduate properly...from what we've been given, Rukia was not an extraordinarily powerful Shinigami, so she should've been placed at the same power tier as other graduates.

I can see that in some faint realm of possibility. And it does make sense he would pay attention to her if he felt she was hurting inside.

Yep, the VC position is up to the Captain, because Kenpachi made Yachiru his and Aizen got Hinamori for himself as an unsuspecting lackey.

[Kikintae]

But while the others went through the hard trainings to be a shinigami, Rukia probably didn't go through much before she was automatically taken out to be a shinigami upon Byakuya's request (or whoever). Given that the members of her division was aware of her circumstances, they couldn't send her out there when it's obvious that she'll lose. Maybe out of spite, but Kaien was in charge so I doubt he'll allow that.

[Windúril]

But that's what I'm saying. I think patrol on Earth is easier than the duties given in Soul Society, which is why lower ranked Shinigami would be the ones to do the Earth patrol. So wouldn't it be natural to send a weak Rukia out?

[Jade]

But that's what I'm saying. I think patrol on Earth is easier than the duties given in Soul Society, which is why lower ranked Shinigami would be the ones to do the Earth patrol. So wouldn't it be natural to send a weak Rukia out?

Hmm..I wouldn't say going to earth is easier b/c hollows attack there. My guess is that they send not only lower-ranked shinigami, but also those who have some experience & enough power to handle hollow attacks. Anyway, wouldn't they at least send 2 shinigamis to patrol a specific area on earth. I assume it would make sense to send more than one. That way, he/she can cover their partner's back in case there's more trouble ahead. Rukia seem to be on her own.

[kunoichi]

Anyway, wouldn't they at least send 2 shinigamis to patrol a specific area on earth. I assume it would make sense to send more than one. That way, he/she can cover their partner's back in case there's more trouble ahead. Rukia seem to be on her own.
that would make sense, but apparently they don't. iirc, when ishida was getting to all the hollows before rukia and ichigo, rukia said it wouldn't be another shinigami because they each have their own territories to cover.

[Windúril]

Hmm..I wouldn't say going to earth is easier b/c hollows attack there. My guess is that they send not only lower-ranked shinigami, but also those who have some experience & enough power to handle hollow attacks. Anyway, wouldn't they at least send 2 shinigamis to patrol a specific area on earth. I assume it would make sense to send more than one. That way, he/she can cover their partner's back in case there's more trouble ahead. Rukia seem to be on her own.

Well, let's assume most of the Hollows that are found in Soul Society are as strong as the one that absorbed Kaien. There haven't been any Hollows except Grand Fisher and Menos Grande on par with that Hollow that's visited the Earth. Oh and maybe those hollows in -17. I dunno, why would they have the humongous Gotei 13 mostly placed away in SS if the more dangerous place was Earth?

[Jade]

Well, let's assume most of the Hollows that are found in Soul Society are as strong as the one that absorbed Kaien. There haven't been any Hollows except Grand Fisher and Menos Grande on par with that Hollow that's visited the Earth. Oh and maybe those hollows in -17. I dunno, why would they have the humongous Gotei 13 mostly placed away in SS if the more dangerous place was Earth?

Hmm..I have no clue either. Perhaps, Kubo-sensei would enlighten us fans later on the series :)

Anyway, the hollow that merge itself w/ Kaien seem to have a deathwish or something. Of all the places it can go to find its meal, it choose soul society. Why is that? I would assume they would stay away from soul society since it's filled w/ shinigamis who will kick their hollow butt. Aside from the hollows that attack earth, soul society hollow attacks doesn't seem to be a common occurence. So far, we only seen one hollow that attack there. It would be interesting if someone actually lured the hollow that attack Kaien & his wife in soul society.

[Kikintae]

But that's what I'm saying. I think patrol on Earth is easier than the duties given in Soul Society, which is why lower ranked Shinigami would be the ones to do the Earth patrol. So wouldn't it be natural to send a weak Rukia out?

Ah, I see what you're saying. Sorry, I'm a little slow.

Well, actually, I think that taking care of hollows in soul society would be easier. If one is in trouble or can't handle the hollow, they can always call for reinforcements such as what Hisagi did and it would come right away. On Earth, the low ranked and fresh shinigami is alone--reinforcements is far and it's hard to navigate through a unknown place.

[Jade]

Ah, I see what you're saying. Sorry, I'm a little slow.

Well, actually, I think that taking care of hollows in soul society would be easier. If one is in trouble or can't handle the hollow, they can always call for reinforcements such as what Hisagi did and it would come right away. On Earth, the low ranked and fresh shinigami is alone--reinforcements is far and it's hard to navigate through a unknown place.

I think that field trip w/ Hisagi, Kira, Momo-chan, & Renji were on earth, not in soul society. If you remember from the special, they were on earth to practice sending souls to soul society. Help didn't arrived that fast either. I believe 2 of Hisagi's assistants were killed & he was injured. Yeah, that hollow attack was unexpected, but I would assume they would have taken some precaution nonetheless since they're sending students in the human world. I wouldn't be surprise if Aizen & Gin have anything to do w/ that attack. Judging from the way they're acting on the last 2 chapters, I say they're capable of anything at this point.

[Kikintae]

I think that field trip w/ Hisagi, Kira, Momo-chan, & Renji were on earth, not in soul society. If you remember from the special, they were on earth to practice sending souls to soul society. Help didn't arrived that fast either. I believe 2 of Hisagi's assistants were killed & he was injured. Yeah, that hollow attack was unexpected, but I would assume they would have taken some precaution nonetheless since they're sending students in the human world. I wouldn't be surprise if Aizen & Gin have anything to do w/ that attack. Judging from the way they're acting on the last 2 chapters, I say they're capable of anything at this point.

Oh yeah, huh. My mistake.

But my point is if it's in soul society, then help would be faster than on earth.

[Windúril]

Hmm..I have no clue either. Perhaps, Kubo-sensei would enlighten us fans later on the series :)

Anyway, the hollow that merge itself w/ Kaien seem to have a deathwish or something. Of all the places it can go to find its meal, it choose soul society. Why is that? I would assume they would stay away from soul society since it's filled w/ shinigamis who will kick their hollow butt. Aside from the hollows that attack earth, soul society hollow attacks doesn't seem to be a common occurence. So far, we only seen one hollow that attack there. It would be interesting if someone actually lured the hollow that attack Kaien & his wife in soul society.

Well, your point makes perfect sense if we assume Hollows are usually easy prey for Shinigami, but this Hollow wasn't, and obviously it must've known it could kill most any Shinigami that touched its tentacles, otherwise it wouldn't have made itself known.

[Jade]

Well, your point makes perfect sense if we assume Hollows are usually easy prey for Shinigami, but this Hollow wasn't, and obviously it must've known it could kill most any Shinigami that touched its tentacles, otherwise it wouldn't have made itself known.

Well, we know hollows are not easily defeated. If they are easy prey, they would have been ALL wipe out by now :) But, I just didn't think that hollows can enter soul society freely like they do on earth.

[Kikintae]

Shrug. It sounds like a pretty ****y hollow to me. If it's pretty confident about its skills, then it would make sense that it would choose soul society as a target. After all, it's easier to find high spiritual powers in soul society than earth where there's only a few.

You think Aizen could have send the hollow? I don't know how it would benefit him though. Maybe that was his first attempt as a distraction.

[raikiri]

Hollows seek spirtual power, and there's a lot more of that in SS than Earth. I imagine that the more dangerous Hollows hang around SS than Earth. The small fry probably pick up the scraps on Earth.

EDIT: Or maybe since there's so many more humans on earth, there's more soul power on Eartth? gah.

[MSG Johnny]

Um, I assumed that the hollow that merged with Kaien was on Earth?

[Kikintae]

No, I think that was in soul society. The hollow doesn't travel around, so to be on earth, it would have a hard time finding victims.

[MSG Johnny]

But was there a mention that the Hollow is in Soul Society?

[Windúril]

I don't think the Hollow was on Earth, because an entire brigade of Shinigami was wiped out...whereas it would've been just one if it was on Earth.

[Jade]

EDIT: Or maybe since there's so many more humans on earth, there's more soul power on Eartth? gah.

LOL! You're not alone. I'm confused too! Let's just make it simple & say hollows are all over the place b/c they're big, bad, & creepy..therefore, they can choose wherever the hell they want to go, I guess :D


But was there a mention that the Hollow is in Soul Society?

I think it wasn't directly stated. But, it seem to occur in soul society. Kubo-sensei didn't really show Ukitake, Kaien, & Rukia departing from soul society. Ah, I don't know. Even I am not sure anymore :p

[Kikintae]

None.

But since Kaien's wife and her squad was killed by the hollow, I'm assuming that it's in soul society. We haven't seen an entire squad patrolling on earth before. It's usually one or two person. Plus, the environment around them seems like soul society rather than earth where there's buildings and such. But they could have been fighting in a place like where Ichigo fought the Grand Fisher.

What makes you think that it's on earth though? I never thought about it...but it could be.

[edit] Darn. Winduril was ahead of me.

[MSG Johnny]

Oh hehe, I just assumed that Hollows appear on Earth. So I have no support for my assumption.

As for a squad being wiped out, well, presumably people have heard about the Hollow, since it doesn't move. 1 shinigami goes there, doesn't come back. Ukitake then sends a squad with the 3rd ranked officer to do recon, and that one gets wiped out.

Seemed to make sense for me, but yeah I suppose it could have been anywhere.

[Darkstorm_13]

hollows cant enter ss right....maybe theres a grey area inbetween living and ss.

[Kikintae]

Huh? Where is that?

I only remember the part about hollows living in the realm between soul society and earth or the human's realm.

[Faraday]

They can pass into earth quite easily, but I think it would be hard for them to get into SS, I thought they where on earth. A squad sent to do recon or something like somebody above said.

[Tsukiyomi]

yeah, i always assumed that hollow was on earth, since there haven't been any other instances shown where hollows enter soul society. wouldn't a hollow have to be prretty retarded to go to the one place where its most likely to be be destroyed?

whoa, isn't this supposed to be about urahara?

[Windúril]

yeah, i always assumed that hollow was on earth, since there haven't been any other instances shown where hollows enter soul society. wouldn't a hollow have to be prretty retarded to go to the one place where its most likely to be be destroyed?

whoa, isn't this supposed to be about urahara?

Well this is exactly what I mean. The Hollow didn't seem retarded per say...so actually I think it knew it had the ability to kill any Shinigami that would attack it, and that's why it had no fear of being in Soul Society.

Another interesting notiong that came to me....if the Hollow WAS in SS, did it actually go through the Dangai to get there? Is it possible for Hollows to be born in SS?

[Tsukiyomi]

Well this is exactly what I mean. The Hollow didn't seem retarded per say...so actually I think it knew it had the ability to kill any Shinigami that would attack it, and that's why it had no fear of being in Soul Society.

Another interesting notiong that came to me....if the Hollow WAS in SS, did it actually go through the Dangai to get there? Is it possible for Hollows to be born in SS?

i'm thinking that if the hollow really was in SS, it went through the Dangai. It doesn't seem possible for a hollow to be born in SS, since they're created when they've been neglected by shinigamis for too long and aren't sent to soul society, or attacked by another hollow..so, it doesn't make much sense for it to be created there.

[D34th Ch1x0r]

Maybe I'm wrong or dense but isn't Urahara the only one with the known gate to Dangai??

[Windúril]

You can tear a hole into the Dangai. What Urahara made was a gate that changed the regular people into spiritons so they could pass through. Hollows just don't go into the Dangai normally.

[D34th Ch1x0r]

Oooh, okay! I get it now, heh. :D I'll have to go back to the earlier chapters and reread some of it :p

[s01iD_sNak3]

hmmm...maybe they came in some other way, or broke in, im sure there are other wayz to get into SS

[Djudge]

Well seeing how it's (the Dangai) is the crack between the living and the spiritual world, I'm sure that any sort of incursion would've had to cross the Dangai sooner or later. Unless for some reason intruders have a sheltered way to travel through the dimension that wasn't produced by a Zanpaku.

[crazysmoke]

the shinigami that goes on partol also have another duty then just killing hollows. they have to do that soul sending thing. if not the soul might become hollows.

about rukia's powers they are not gone. first shes a spirit i don't know where she came from though. what was destroyed was ichigo's soul link? and the shinigami powers that was transferred into him. runkia was not stabbed in anyways.
besides she can use demon arts. that just means she has spritual powers? that could be. but how do sprits even become shinigamis in the first place? by have spritual powers. but this could be easily answer if she only got a hold of a soul cutter.

i don't think rukia is weak. but not super strong either. first of when she encounter ichigo his strong spritual pressure was blocking some of her own powers. i think rukia could of beaten the hollow that attacked ichigos family if she didn't save his life. but i think she knew the name of her soul cutter and could unseal it she just didn't have a chance to use it or maybe she doesn't know. alot of them don't know the names like the guy who came and checked on her the first time. or it could be that the chapters were too early on in the series and the kubo didn't think up all of the story just yet.

renji just worked really hard to catch up and surpass her.

about urahara i really wonder what his plan is and why he can't get into SS. cuz yoruichi can. i wonder if he wants ichigo to save soul society to prepare him for something else. i can't really tell from the story so far if theres a connection to azien.

about the whole hollow in soul society thing. i think they knew it was a strong hollow so they sent a squadron including kaien's wife to destroy it and it was probably in the human world. they do somehow detect hollows when they appear. hollow also have their own realm maybe in another part of soul society that the can go to hide out in.

[Djudge]

about urahara i really wonder what his plan is and why he can't get into SS. cuz yoruichi can. i wonder if he wants ichigo to save soul society to prepare him for something else. i can't really tell from the story so far if theres a connection to azien.
That's another thing that's been bothering me. If Yoruichi is now considered an accomplice in aiding Urahara's escape from Soul Society, why hasn't she been banned from shifting between the worlds? Wonder if it has something to do with her cat form...


about the whole hollow in soul society thing. i think they knew it was a strong hollow so they sent a squadron including kaien's wife to destroy it and it was probably in the human world. they do somehow detect hollows when they appear. hollow also have their own realm maybe in another part of soul society that the can go to hide out in.
That's exactly right, Hollows can shift in and out of different realms and when an anomaly is detected in the human world (something other than a Shinigami or human soul/Plus) then it raises eyebrows in Soul Society through an unknown mechanism (probably handled now by Soi Fong's intelligence unit).

[Magnus]

i was thinking, and i dont know if anyone has mentioned this, but anyone have any ideas on Urahara's Ban Kai? cuz i've been thinking, if he got his in 3 days, how powerful is his, since Ichigo also got his in 3 days. any one have any ideas or actually know about Urahara's Ban Kai?

[Kikintae]

i was thinking, and i dont know if anyone has mentioned this, but anyone have any ideas on Urahara's Ban Kai? cuz i've been thinking, if he got his in 3 days, how powerful is his, since Ichigo also got his in 3 days. any one have any ideas or actually know about Urahara's Ban Kai?

That's true..I never thought about it. Anybody?

What I'm also interested in is why he needed to do it in three days? It may be because he's an impatient person or he wants to try something new, but could it also be somewhat related to the conspiracy?

[Darkstorm_13]

u got to remember this guy was the head of the research institute at SS, and that meant he probably is the most intellgent person there. heck, maybe hitsuagya got to be a captain using urahara's method. so i think its pretty realistic to have him come up with some short cut.

[Djudge]

i was thinking, and i dont know if anyone has mentioned this, but anyone have any ideas on Urahara's Ban Kai? cuz i've been thinking, if he got his in 3 days, how powerful is his, since Ichigo also got his in 3 days. any one have any ideas or actually know about Urahara's Ban Kai?
Actually, since I too was corrected on this matter, Ichigo received Zangetsu's Bankai form after only one and a half days of hard training.


What I'm also interested in is why he needed to do it in three days? It may be because he's an impatient person or he wants to try something new, but could it also be somewhat related to the conspiracy?
Ehh, it's probable, but there'd probably be some lag time between Kisuke obtaining Benihime's Bankai and his promotion to the head of the 12th Division. The only way that I'd see that working is if he was keeping an eye on Aizen for quite a long time and the good Captain of the 5th didn't have the foresight to lock on to the threat Kisuke represented.


u got to remember this guy was the head of the research institute at SS, and that meant he probably is the most intellgent person there. heck, maybe hitsuagya got to be a captain using urahara's method. so i think its pretty realistic to have him come up with some short cut.
Well, I think it was mentioned that Ichigo was only the second person ever to try Urahara's method. The only two people that ever knew the true details of Urahara's training regimen were presumably himself and Yoruichi. It wouldn't make any sense if they allowed Hitsugaya, as talented as he was, to undergo the training. Besides Urahara mentioned that Ichigo is even "more talented" than himself, and made no mention of the 10th Division Captain whatsoever in the conversations shown between him and Yoruichi in c132.

[raikiri]

About Urahara's Ban Kai training method, IIRC, other people have tried to do it, I think it's in the chapter where Yoruichi says Zaraki didn't have ban kai. EDIT: it's chapter 132, and sure enuff, it is one of the Gin vs Hitsugaya chapters. I think I've got those couple chapters imprinted into my memory, ugh.

ANyway Yoruichi said that only Urahara had been successful so far. She never said what happened to those people, but they probably got messed up bad. I'm quite Hitsugaya didn't achieve ban kai through that method, besides, who would show it to him? Yoruichi and Urahara are not around when he became Shinagami.

[Djudge]

About Urahara's Ban Kai training method, IIRC, other people have tried to do it, I think it's in the chapter where Yoruichi says Zaraki didn't have ban kai. ANyway Yoruichi said that only Urahara had been successful so far. She never said what happened to those people, but they probably got messed up bad. I'm quite Hitsugaya didn't achieve ban kai through that method, besides, who would show it to him? Yoruichi and Urahara are not around when he became Shinagami.
The only instance that I can remember Yoruichi talking about the mechanics of the training was in c127. Even then, when she started on what could happen if Ichigo didn't finish within three days, he cut her off by stating that he didn't want to know. If any further research yields anything I'll edit or post again.

EDIT: Correction, lol, I must be slipping. You were right raikiri, but nowhere near the right chapter. It happened in the closing pages of c132 where Yoruichi talked about Urahara inventing the method and becoming the first to complete its training. All these mysterious "others" expired during the regimen...

[raikiri]

Yeah I happen to remember chapter 129-133 disturbingly well, because it's Gin's only real fight so far, and Hitsugaya is cool too. Other chapters, err, I don't remember so good.

[Darkstorm_13]

i dont remember any chapters, lol. oh well my bad then, but if Urahara is saying only 2 people have did it him and Ichigo, i dont really see a point in this method, i mean theres no point in doing it three days of ten years, as i doubt SS, has been threatened that much.

[Magnus]

yea and i'm still curious to what his ban kai does. and you guys are right, he seems to be the most intelligent guy in SS, so do you think he knows of this conspiracy? anyways, to see if Urahara makes some sort of appearance would be nice, if he could find a way back.

[jewlreya]

yea and i'm still curious to what his ban kai does. and you guys are right, he seems to be the most intelligent guy in SS, so do you think he knows of this conspiracy? anyways, to see if Urahara makes some sort of appearance would be nice, if he could find a way back.

Urahara is really a mysterious character, he was previously a captain and some reasearch sch head right? I realy hope he gets into the story again. It would be real interesting, he might be the one who create all these mess.

[Djudge]

Urahara is really a mysterious character, he was previously a captain and some reasearch sch head right? I realy hope he gets into the story again. It would be real interesting, he might be the one who create all these mess.
Not only was he the research department head, but he was also its founder.

[bleachigo]

you guys think urahara was banned for using that 3 day method of learning ban kai maybe? maybe its like forbidden to learn it that way or somthing

[Saffire]

you guys think urahara was banned for using that 3 day method of learning ban kai maybe? maybe its like forbidden to learn it that way or somthingNah, I don't think that's it. There's two possible avenues of thought in my mind:
1) Him and Aizen were leaders of factions attempting to do something, and Aizen won out, leading to Urahara having to flee for his life.
2) Urahara was doing research and discovered something he shouldn't have. This is implied by the statement about Rukia's gigai. There was something about that gigai that surpassed anything anyone in Soul Society was capable of, which indicates that it's creator knows something everyone else doesn't.

[Djudge]

Nah, I don't think that's it. There's two possible avenues of thought in my mind:
1) Him and Aizen were leaders of factions attempting to do something, and Aizen won out, leading to Urahara having to flee for his life.
2) Urahara was doing research and discovered something he shouldn't have. This is implied by the statement about Rukia's gigai. There was something about that gigai that surpassed anything anyone in Soul Society was capable of, which indicates that it's creator knows something everyone else doesn't.
You know, the way you stacked them up together makes it sound as if Urahara was trying to make Gigai impervious to Kyouka Suigetsu's Shikai and that's what forced Aizen to get some dirt on Urahara...

[gogo]

You know, the way you stacked them up together makes it sound as if Urahara was trying to make Gigai impervious to Kyouka Suigetsu's Shikai and that's what forced Aizen to get some dirt on Urahara...

but wouldn't aizen just hypnotize him - why go through the trouble of kicking him out? unless urahara is immune to the hypnosis? of course all on the assumption that aizen and urahara had a past important to the story line

[Djudge]

but wouldn't aizen just hypnotize him - why go through the trouble of kicking him out? unless urahara is immune to the hypnosis? of course all on the assumption that aizen and urahara had a past important to the story line
Well, of course as you said, that's all under the presumption that Urahara had finally figured out the trick behind Aizen's Zanpaku. And as for those two having a past together, it hasn't been totally ruled out of the makeshift timeline people have managed to scrap together. So the bottom line is, I'm just saying that this is the string of speculation I'm putting some money on.

[Saffire]

You know, the way you stacked them up together makes it sound as if Urahara was trying to make Gigai impervious to Kyouka Suigetsu's Shikai and that's what forced Aizen to get some dirt on Urahara...Interesting line of thought. No need to get dirt on Urahara though, he'd just make something up so the Central 46 would think that Urahara did something wrong, regardless of whether he actually did. He can create evidence on the spot, after all.

You know, this reminds me of something. The problem with Kyouka Suigetsu is that you have to be able to see it in order to fall under it's ability. It's revealed that Urahara developed a method of laser eye surgery and that it looked like he underwent it himself. Maybe Urahara had really bad eyesight back then and so if he took his glasses off he couldn't see Kyouka Suigetsu. :P

[crazysmoke]

wait i thought that was just a joke by the writer.

[Darkstorm_13]

Interesting line of thought. No need to get dirt on Urahara though, he'd just make something up so the Central 46 would think that Urahara did something wrong, regardless of whether he actually did. He can create evidence on the spot, after all.

You know, this reminds me of something. The problem with Kyouka Suigetsu is that you have to be able to see it in order to fall under it's ability. It's revealed that Urahara developed a method of laser eye surgery and that it looked like he underwent it himself. Maybe Urahara had really bad eyesight back then and so if he took his glasses off he couldn't see Kyouka Suigetsu. :P


he developed a laser eye surgery when?

[Saffire]

he developed a laser eye surgery when?It was a mini-series of omakes at some point in the manga. The 3rd seat of the 4th Division was writing about how very sad it was that he couldn't get chicks because of his glasses, so he went to see Urahara because he heard that Urahara had developed a way to allow him to see without glasses.

[Magnus]

yup he did do a method of laser eye surgery for him. remember kon mentioned something a while back in the beginning chapters of how he wanted to see differently, or was it someone else? but yea, look at Urahara's eyes, they have some black around them, from the surgery he created. so i think he did find a way to avoid Aizen's Ban Kai and therefore he left. but Ichigo's there to do something about it with Yorouichi. CRAZy thought huh =D

and yes he was the founder and head of 12th Division Research and Development, as Djudge said. he's one smart dude. power and brains. i would like to see him and Aizen fight. crazzyy

[Drag]

Actually I think the dark spots are from his hat(not saying he didn't have the surgery), because when Ichigo knocked his hat off they weren't there.

[kunoichi]

um, guys? are you looking at the manga-rain translations of those omakes about the eye surgery? cause there's a note that goes with them (see ch.110-111):

"Dearest bleach addicts,

Due to the difficulty in translating this omake that was in formal japanese, which is very difficult to translate. We have provided you with this unofficial omake that was created by ssh83 (isn’t he creative? ).If you are fluent in japanese and would like to try translating this omake please pm kstar at #manga-rain@irc.irchighway.net.

Wasn't that omake believable though!? i sure was fooled ^_^
- kstar"

am i being fooled by this note into thinking the whole eye surgery thing was bs? cause that's what i thought it meant...

[Bergamt]

So how abut this timeline:

1. Aizen is Urahara's Vice Captain

2. Urahara develops something (gigai, bankai technique, who knows) that causes the SS council to turn against him, so he has to flee with Yoruchi

3. Urahara sends hollows after Ichigo and his family

4. Urahara tells Aizen to form the conspiracy

5. Ichigo falls for the bait (Rukia), enters SS, and sets off the revolution

6. With SS in disarray, Urahara shows up and takes over, with Aizen and Gin his direct subordinates.

[Dante]

but then again, Urahara can't enter soul society let alone touch the entrance. unless, there's some switch inside that turns it off. If aizen was Urahara's vice captain, that would make for an unexpected twist in the story line. kubo already made aizen look scary evil by killing hinamori and owning hitsugaya. i'd be very surprised if urahara was with aizen in this scheme.

[spaced_out]

So how abut this timeline:

1. Aizen is Urahara's Vice Captain

2. Urahara develops something (gigai, bankai technique, who knows) that causes the SS council to turn against him, so he has to flee with Yoruchi

3. Urahara sends hollows after Ichigo and his family

4. Urahara tells Aizen to form the conspiracy

5. Ichigo falls for the bait (Rukia), enters SS, and sets off the revolution

6. With SS in disarray, Urahara shows up and takes over, with Aizen and Gin his direct subordinates.

That theory would only work if the barrier preventing Urahara from entering SS is down. Anyway, i like to think of Urahara as a good guy, and i prefer the theory that Aizen used his hypnosis to turn the Central 46 against Urahara,thereby forcing him to flee.

[Bergamt]

i'd be very surprised if urahara was with aizen in this scheme. Aizen and Gin's plan needed chaos, to set captains against each other, and to kill or wound a large percentage of the SS military. The main source of this chaos is Ichigo, who was trained by Urahara himself. Indeed, Urahara has been present at virtually every major event on earth since Ichigo became a shinigami, and he clearly has a far better idea of what Ichigo is capable of than anyone else.


That theory would only work if the barrier preventing Urahara from entering SS is down. With the council dead, the captains in disarray, and friends of Urahara around, I don't think that's as big a deal as you think. If the barrier can be made in SS, it can be shut down there (if the Author wishes).


Anyway, i like to think of Urahara as a good guy I'm not entirely convinced that Aizen, Gin and co. are evil.

Sure, they oppose the current system, but Soul Society has been issuing an alarming number of corrupt orders. If they were under Aizen's complete control, he wouldn't need to take power through force; he'd already have it. It's possible that they are in need of a revolution. Who better to orchestrate it than an exile who is exceptionally knowledgable about the nature of Shinigamis, Hollows, and Soul Society in general?

[tensa-zan-getsu]

i think he os able to use since we've seen him a couple of times

[Saffire]

I'm not entirely convinced that Aizen, Gin and co. are evil.

Sure, they oppose the current system, but Soul Society has been issuing an alarming number of corrupt orders. If they were under Aizen's complete control, he wouldn't need to take power through force; he'd already have it. It's possible that they are in need of a revolution. Who better to orchestrate it than an exile who is exceptionally knowledgable about the nature of Shinigamis, Hollows, and Soul Society in general?Evil is evil, even in the name of justice. And stabbing Hinamori like that was most definitely evil.

[Windúril]

It wasn't so much that he stabbed her, as it was that he stabbed her after getting her to pretty much love him as a superior. That's just kinda...sick.

[everwatcher]

hinamori liked it anyway ^_^

[Saffire]

If not for stabbing Hinamori, I would actually place Aizen in the same group as Shunsui and Ukitake. The reason behind this is in chapter 151, they were the ones who took down Soukyoku.

Ichigo only blocked it once and then destroyed the pillar. He was spinning Zangetsu mind you...I guess he does learn from Holichigo. Another notable occurence is that they mentioned starting a liberation late as they were taking it down.

Sidenote, what is Shihouin? Soi Fong mentions it and I do not recall that name.Shihouin is one of the four major noble houses, like House Kuchiki. Yoruichi is from House Shihouin.

[flyboyz2000k]

this topic should be about urahara, but just to make things clear Aizen is evil, sick, and a little psycopathic but wouldnt you be if ultimate power layed at the end of your goal. It's like getting between a poor man and a billion dollars in my opinion :lol: . Well I wanted to ask about urahara, urahara knows the moon fang technique correct? because in one of the manga's he does it against ichigos moon fang. So benihime can cut other soul slayers defend powerful atacks and do the moon fang all in shikai form? Is it just me or is that just too much, I would hate to be on the other side of his bankai.

[Saffire]

Well I wanted to ask about urahara, urahara knows the moon fang technique correct? because in one of the manga's he does it against ichigos moon fang. So benihime can cut other soul slayers defend powerful atacks and do the moon fang all in shikai form? Is it just me or is that just too much, I would hate to be on the other side of his bankai.It probably isn't the Getsuga per se, but a similar sort of attack. Benihime doesn't cut soul cutters any better than any other soul cutter, at the time Ichigo's power hadn't completely formed so his sword was easy to break.

[Windúril]

It's most likely the same zangeki he used at the start of Chapter 66.

[ishboogoo]

well if u think about it, he was the former captain of division 12, and he trained with yoruichi who revealed the extent of her powers against soifon where soifon didnt even stand a chance after yoruichi released her powers, and so urahara must be a very powerful shinigami. perhaps as powerful as genryusai