Mod souls

[hasukawa13]

I was wondering about those mod souls. There is speculation that maybe the genius behind it was Urahara. If so, that would explain why he had felt it necessary to go after Kon himself. But what I wonder is just how much thought went into the whole mod soul experiment. They felt it less than tasteful to make use of dead bodies, but why didn't they put more thought into what they could use? On a whim, Ichigo and Rukia discovered that a stuffed animal would work just as well as a real body. Kon still has those strong legs in his "boss tuff" form. If they had made a little more effort into project spearhead, maybe they could have come up with an alternative to dead humans. Maybe some kind of artificial replica of a human form to use in battle against hollows. It would have worked and they wouldn't be dishonoring any of the deceased. so perhaps there is more to this project being shut down than thought before.

And while on the subject of mod souls, just how is a "lovely singing voice" an effective weapon against hollows? Would they be singing Celine Dion ballads to throw them into fits of disgust?

[Djudge]

Hmm, I think that you might be taking things just a bit too seriously. When Kon's in his stuffed bear form he doesn't have anything strong enough to reinforce a plush toy in combat (i.e. spiritual pressure) like he does when he's in Ichigo's body. So I'm guessing that the physical actions that he takes, like slapping around Hanatarou in the omake, are exaggerated and there for comic relief.

Also, the "lovely singing voice" is probably sarcasm alluding to a type of sonic attack.

[ShamanQueenAnna]

Well, maybe whoever decided that the use of dead bodies was distateful was not Urahara but someone with ulterior motives. Therefore, they probably didn't look too hard for an alternative for the mod souls.

Meanwhile, I think we can all agree that a Celine Dion ballad would hurt even the bravest of us...

[teferi]

THAT WAS SPAM!(no it wasnt)
while im here :D
i think that THey choulden't control exactly what mod souls chould do =\ like it was random :D (no it wasnt random)~NC(is an interfering spamming mod)

wtf? NC can go eat sum hollow dookie :D

[axl99]

it's a shuddering thought to wonder what kon will do with rukia's gigai if he ever was put in it. hell that would actually make a funny omake.

[Djudge]

Hmm interesting connection made there Teferi. Uruhara's position of former Research Department head + mod konpaku experiment ban + Uruhara's uber gigai for Rukia + possible plan to put mods into gigai = banishment? Interesting...

[rathimal]

Hmm interesting connection made there Teferi. Uruhara's position of former Research Department head + mod konpaku experiment ban + Uruhara's uber gigai for Rukia + possible plan to put mods into gigai = banishment? Interesting...

I don't think it would have been something so trivial as using the modsouls for super gigai. I mean, Urahara was a valueable asset to soul society...so it would have been for his more radical ideas if he was kicked out or something.

[Ninjacowboy]

THAT WAS SPAM!
while im here :D
i think that THey choulden't control exactly what mod souls chould do =\ like it was random :D ~NC
well anywho thats my post =\

[hasukawa13]

If we're going along the lines of radical experiments, wouldn't Mayuri be a candidate for the expulsion? He is one twisted guy. The quincy experiments alone should have gotten him in trouble. You're probably right that Kisuke wouldn't be excused for merely experimenting. Perhaps it was more of a controversial stance he took that made people uneasy and forced his ban from SS.

As for Kon, his strength of legs still shows. Remember when he was running away from Chad and those girls in his short lived escape attempt? He was damn fast for a stuffed animal. So while they won't pack a punch, his legs still have some power to them.

And I could see a sonic attack being a mod soul power, but the way KoboTite drew it made it look more melodic than screeching.

[Djudge]

Though, again, it was a comedic sequence haskukawa13, if I see Kon ever running in a more dramatic and serious setting then I'd be completely sold to your conclusion.

[Patrioil]

It's not a bear... it's a Lion Teddybear! ;_;
And maybe Urahara's making Kon a body while Ichi's gone :P

[hasukawa13]

It's not a bear... it's a Lion Teddybear! ;_;
And maybe Urahara's making Kon a body while Ichi's gone :P

Yup...and his codename is "Boss Tuff" ^_^

I think a new body for him would be pretty cool, something to make use of his leg strength. If there will be somnekind of hollow battle after this whole SS arc, Ichigo and friends will need all the help they can get with the aftermath of this coming battle in SS. But then again, wasn't he reluctant to even let the little guy live? Who's to say he'll go out of his way to help him by making Kon a new body?

[hasukawa13]

Though, again, it was a comedic sequence haskukawa13, if I see Kon ever running in a more dramatic and serious setting then I'd be completely sold to your conclusion.

Ah...I found something of this nature. I didn't see a scene where Kon was using his ablities in a non-comedic setting, but there was the profile for him in volume 4. It mentioned that Kon can run the 100 meter in 3.8 seconds and can jump over 13 meters. You may say that it is referring to when he possesses a human body, but since this is the form in which Kon is set up in, I take it to mean he can do that in the stuffed animal form. Likely he wouldn't be able to pack much of a punch in his legs, he could still use them quite effectively.

[Byakuya]

Well.. we know Urahara did something that the superiors at the Shinigami didn't want to happen. It has something to do with the gigais.. perhaps it was endangering the balance of the world, and spirits would be able to use these advanced gigais to reclaim their "Life" and live in the normal world again? (Including shinigami)

or.. maybe he got exiled for trying to perform some kind of human transmutation :)

[hasukawa13]

Well.. we know Urahara did something that the superiors at the Shinigami didn't want to happen. It has something to do with the gigais.. perhaps it was endangering the balance of the world, and spirits would be able to use these advanced gigais to reclaim their "Life" and live in the normal world again? (Including shinigami)

or.. maybe he got exiled for trying to perform some kind of human transmutation :)

It can be any number of thing. It hasn't been mentioned lately in the manga so for the forseeable future, it won't be touched upon. Still, this is a genuinely interesting concept. Urahara did something to get himself kicked out of SS. It wasn't something so drastic that it required the use of Dual Terminus, but it must have been someting serious...or inconvenient for someone in a position of power. I just hope there is going to be another arc after this so we can shed some light on all these little mysteries that keep piling up.

[Byakuya]

also, the secret behind the Evil Ichigo and the way how Uraharu gave Ichigo to become shinigami brings to question what exactly is a Shinigami? And what is a Hollow.. Could it be that when people become spirits they can either choose to be a Plus, Hollow, or Shinigami? If the latter is a possibility, does it mean that all shinigami have an "evil side" buried deep beneath?

If you look back to chapter 64, when Ichigo claimed his hidden shinigami powers, he appeared as Shinigami with a Hollow mask.. that looks more like a 'Death God' to me..

[Update:]

Chapter 69, when the weird research institute shinigami obtains Rukia's gigai, their conclusion was that "IF there is someone with this kind of skill.. he would've been exiled from Soul Society!" Okay.. so Uraharu really was exiled from Soul Society because of the advanced Gigais he developed.. So what kind of threat do souless dolls pose to the higher ups.. is the question :eek:

[Djudge]

That conjecture you made doesn't necessarily have to correlate with the fact that Uruhara making advanced gigai/gigai parts got him exiled from Soul Society. There could've been so many other ways for Uruhara to get the boot and it's possible whatever the cause may be, only a person with the technical skill exhibited in Rukia's gigai could've pulled it off -> Uruhara. Likewise, I don't see super-advanced gigai being the real reason why Uruhara was stripped of his rank, even though the manga seems to suggest that.

[Lst2touchdasky]

Rukia's gigai is far from advance, in the second volume she complains that her gagai is only legs and boobs, that she doenst have the muscle required to execute her needs. When the examiners were working with Rukia's gigai, they could have been examining any factor- anything unsual is a probable develop through her prolonged stay in that state. Remember that gigai were not developed for that kinda of time usage, she was most likely one of the first shingami to do this. Not only that- she was exposed through many different senerios and circumstances which caused the gigai to connect with her at a high percentage. Sure urahara "may" be connected to rukia in some odd way- but there is still no solid evidence.


also, the secret behind the Evil Ichigo and the way how Uraharu gave Ichigo to become shinigami brings to question what exactly is a Shinigami? And what is a Hollow.. Could it be that when people become spirits they can either choose to be a Plus, Hollow, or Shinigami? If the latter is a possibility, does it mean that all shinigami have an "evil side" buried deep beneath?

The first stage of the afterlife is Plus, everybeing will experience this no matter what their senerio. The steps after are just different lights of "passing on" which involves the character of the dead one and how they died. If you were a person who faced death with no regrets or achieved some piece of mind, you often found soul society in some way or another; however, if the soul is vengeful or regretful at death, they're humanity will crumble until they became a hollow- the speed of this depends how much of their humanity they had already lost before they had died. All this isnt much of choice, its just the character of the person and what fate has in hand for them.

Ill answer your ichigo question when i wake up

[Djudge]

Seeing as how Shinigami all start out as normal souls that undergo some sort of training in Seireitei, chances are that all that separate them from the "Plus" variety is the ability to utilize a power rooted in their soul to a heightened degree. Individuals such as Sado or Orihime have the innate ability to manifest their spiritual aura as weaponry and the like, but as I recall, they aren't rooted in the individual's soul (Although this hasn't really been proven yet since we haven't seen Sado, Orihime, etc. in a purely spiritual state. Remember, in Soul Society, their corporeal forms were converted into a spiritual state by Uruhara's portal so they technically aren't pure souls.) Even with the Quincy, the power utilized is gathered by the manipulation of the spiritrons on the immediate environment and it's been confirmed by Ishida that his kind don't directly draw on the power embedded in their soul (volume 6).

As for the absolute prerequisites to becoming each type of spirit?

Plus: All souls, like stated before, start out in this state until they've been picked up by a Shinigami patrol or until their Chain of Fate has fully corroded at which they become a...

Hollow: With the Chain of Fate fully corroded, a Plus' "heart" falls out of their being and they become a Hollow. It's also been stated by Rukia that victims of a Hollow attack can also become a Hollow (this is unlikely if the soul was consumed, but likely if the Chain of Fate/spirit's psyche was severely damaged)

Shinigami: Notice how no spirit that has become a Shinigami has ever been mentioned as having a previous life in the material world? Renji has been confirmed to have been "born" in the world of Soul Society right in the slums. But was he ever a Plus at one time or another? or can Shinigami only be created from the stock "born" into SS' plane of existence?

As for the question regarding Ichigo's truer Death God look in his return to Shinigami status, take note that the term "Shinigami" here in Bleach is a bit of an overstatement. These "gods" are by no means immortal and they aren't even directly involved with the whole process of death in the material world.

Oh and yes, all Shinigami do have an "evil" side to them amongst many others. They are as fallible as mortals in every regard and can be as benevolent as Unohana, as diabolical as Mayuri, as collected as Shunsui, and as intense as Zaraki as they choose to be.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand: mod souls. Does anyone have any theories as to how they are constructed in the first place?

[Byakuya]

btw.. the questions i asked about hollows, shinigami, plus vs minus, and ichigo were intentionally rhetorical questions... you don't need to answer them haha... I was just pointing out.. that we really don't know much about the supernatural nature and origins of things in the story. There are still many secrets and are brought up unsolved.




Anyway, back to the topic at hand: mod souls. Does anyone have any theories as to how they are constructed in the first place?


hmm i'm gonna go off on a limb here... and say mod souls were synthetically created in Nerv laboratories.. eh hem i mean Soul Society technological institute .. by Uraharu re-using the soul of his dead wife? Just a hunch ;)

[axl99]

if that statement is true, and mod souls can be synthetically created, what about shinigami? i mean we already saw a possible example with mayuri and nemu. [limb and soul adoption technique was mentioned in ch123]

maybe souls that are dying or have recently died could be somehow recycled and reprogrammed.

[teferi]

mod souls r synthetically created souls. I dont think they would be able to create synthetic shinigami 'cuz then there wouldnt be a reason for mod souls.

[Byakuya]

mod souls r synthetically created souls. I dont think they would be able to create synthetic shinigami 'cuz then there wouldnt be a reason for mod souls.

HENCE... Uraharu was banned because he got closer and closer to creating a Shinigami soul =P Thanx for helping me move forward with my crazy conjectures.. :D

[Djudge]

Hmm, there has to be a catch to the mod souls though, because if the Quincy were really damaging the equilbrium of both worlds, then couldn't the Shinigami just mass produce replacements as souls were exhausted? Hmm, maybe it has to do with the insertion of soul into a living being during conception... but then again, there could be ways to bypass that.