Ethics of Marketing...including anime

[Dice]

So I was at my marketing class and my professor was giving a lecture on stealth marketing, which is the act of selling products to consumers without them knowing it. Like here's an example, when Sony came out with a camera phone they hired actors to pretend to be tourists at hot spots. Then these actors asked random people to take pictures of them using the camera phone, so potential consumers got to try the product out in a hands-on manner. Essentially it's almost deceptive advertising.

Then she showed a clip from sixty minutes about stealth advertising and it featured the movie Cowboy Bebop. They were talking about how this 13-year-old kid was compensated with free merchandise to go around chatrooms and message boards, like our own, and recommend the movie by giving it a great review. So in effect, he was being used by a marketing agency to promote the movie to unsuspecting internet users.

So I don't know if this should be its own thread but what do you guys think of that? Do you believe that it's unethical? Do you think that it doesn't matter because people aren't persuaded that easily? Or the people that are persuaded already had an interest in the product. Have you seen other instances of this type of marketing to the fandom? Is it harmless?

Edit: I originally posted this on the what's on your mind thread and people felt that it should be its own thread. Therefore, to make discussion easier, I'm starting a fresh thread. I wish I could expand more on my thoughts but I'm at the library writing a paper, yes an all-nighter sort of paper, so I'll wait till tomorrow to respond.

[TallonKarrde23]

Its not ethical, unethical, bad, or good.

Its just smart marketing.

What is bad about having people use your product in public without people knowing? Hell, i subliminally market for lots of anime without anyone know it, ive been talking about Fate/Stay-Night for over a year now (in lots of places) and then they finally announced the series. Same for other game-to-anime series' that i'd have played the game and posted about it all over and then the series would get announced later.

BTW, the girl in my current sig (playing the organ) is from Fate/Hollow-Ataraxia, the sequal to Fate/Stay-Night, available from Type-Moon.

See?

But im not getting payed for it in any way, but still. Its just like that, just these people get paied either in cash or product.


I mean, its just another way of getting your product seen by the public, i dont see how that could be seen as 'bad' or 'unethical'. If you think doing that is unethical then it'd seem you'd believe that if i bought a new car, driving it around would be unethical advertising. But you'd probably say 'its ok' in that case because im not getting any form of payment. But in reality, its the same exact thing.


Essentially it's almost deceptive advertising.

Not really. I bet you the kid saw the show, plus he's a kid and that happened when CB was on TV. And thusly he probably liked the movie, so why would he mind spreading the word for them for lots of free stuff? And how is it bad for him to support a product he believes in? And you can argue he did it just for the free stuff and didnt care about the movie, but guess what. Why would you want stuff relating to something you dont care about? =/ He had interest, and so he cared atleast enough to do that much for free stuff that was related, and thusly he cared enough to be considered 'believing' in the product.

The cellphone thing. The camera phone was new, the people who got to use them to show them off for Sony probably got the ones themselves for doing it, and they probably loved the product to begin with. And thusly they took the job, once again, its a product they believe in or atleast want.

So where is the 'deception'? The only thing your getting lied to about is 'im a random guy with a new phone that isnt released yet, take a picture of me with this awesome new phone from Sony they will be releasing soon for $$$ its called _____ and its really great!'

But other then that the people believe in the product and so its actually LESS deceptive then TV commercials are, which those are pretty horrible about lying. Yes, some of the people will just do it for the free phone or stuff or money, but meh. I think people acting in the streets is less deceptive than a TV commercial who makes everyone using the product the "most awesome" and "coolest" and usually "Hottest" person ever, just cuz they have their shoes on. While if you actually see a guy running around with the shoes on he wont be all made up perfectly and such.

So realistically, its much less deceptive then TV in its own ways, so i dont see a problem.

Then again i couldnt give a **** about it. I dont pay attention to commercials, new stuff people around me have, or anything else. So i guess maybe it just applies to me, what i said that is.

That and, if anyone was out here (So Cal) with some new technology/gadget/PHONE and asked random people to take pics, they'd get jacked within ten minutes. Har har.

[MommyRogers]

It's a tough question. From my point of view - it doesn't really matter to me. I don't really register on most marketing radars. I don't make enough to spend easily; I hang on to my money out of necessity. It has to be a darn good product to make me buy it - but how do I find out? I read consumer studies, and usually wait until a friend (who has more money than I do) tries it. The majority of stuff that people market in the fashion you are commenting on, Dice, isn't necessary.

So - does the fact that something is not vital for survival, coupled with disposable income, make it attractive to the consumer? Seems that way sometimes. This coming from one of the last few holdouts (I don't even have a cell phone! :p)

[Unicorn]

As more people wise up to obvious marketing campaigns, the companies have to find more ways of targeting consumers.

Word-of-mouth marketing is the most trusted form. Consumers get a (usually) unbiased opinion of the product. As an acquaintence, you trust them not to lie to you.

Random chatty strangers showing off gadgets on the street is a form of word-of-mouth marketing. Consumers can see and perhaps get hands-on time with the gadget in action, ask questions, and all the while be unbiased (is s/he selling me this suff because it offers higher sales commission?)

I don't think it is harmful, unethical or deceptive. The consumer still chooses whether to buy it or not. No-one puts a gun to their head and threatens anything.

Another form of "subversive" marketing you may have seen is... some company (forgot its name)... it released a funny video clip or a mini-game on the net. Within days, people have passed on this link to their email-friends, and so on.

Remember... this is entirely voluntary action by the people... and the company gains by having its brand name etched strongly in peoples minds.

[cravenight]

Well, its better than they try to use subliminal message to get us to buy things. It doesn't have to do with ethics or not since its someones job. No different than trying it your self. Eh, i don't know, they will keep on trying so what can you do, its still your choice.

[aznxenocide]

haha you DID make it a thread. :p hahaha

it IS deceptive...but it's also true that if the people weren't originally interested in the product, they wouldn't buy it. I mean, if i was perfectly happy with my cell phone, i wouldn't be interested in whatever phone the guy had. I mean, in seattle, there's this huge deal with nalgene bottles...if you know what they are, they're ridiculously hard, extremely durable water bottles...and everyone has them. How'd it start?? someone probably saw it, bought it, other people saw it, liked it, and bought it. He wasn't INTENTIONALLY advertising it...but the effect was the same. wearing brand names, drinking brand name drinks, all that can be considered advertising. that's why they blur out brands on tv shows, after all. so no, i don't think it's unethical. It's, like tallon said, smart marketing.

there's my two cents, aka 200 words. about. :p haha just kidding.

[Griffith]

In a world where the marketing industry is so competitive, tactics like that are clever and innovative - I don't think they're deceptive in any way, because they're not falsely promoting anything. As long as the consumer is correctly informed about a product/service and ends up taking interest in it, a marketer has done a good job.

[SoulBerry]

Hopefully this'll give you a better mark. Read through it :p.

Politicians pay other people to promote themselves, in an official role or as a trusting friend, etc etc. It's out there, and I don't think it's ethically wrong.

Deception is always a form of self-marketing. People exaggerate or even lie on resumes, car sales-people play down a car's weaknesses, etc etc.

In an extreme case of self-marketing:

Greg wanted to impress Sara, but has no idea where to start. He starts stalking her; once he finds out her route home, he pays a friend, Mike, to jump Sara while she's walking home. He grabs her and holds her. At this time Greg just happens to be "walking by," and he attacks Mike, taking a few "hard" hits in the stomach before driving Mike off. Naturally, Sara was greatful and took Greg the rest of the way home to give him water and let him rest, and to thank him.

That night, Sara reported the crime. She gave a full description of Mike, and referred the police to Greg as her saviour. The police investigated and questioned Mike and Greg both, and found out that they both happened to be 22km from where they usually live, that they had been seen together all day at school, that Greg had no bruising to his "hurt" areas, and that Greg had an interest in Sara and was seen following her (by her friends). Putting 2x2, Greg and Mike were arrested.

True story with the names changed around (more cus I don't remember them than anything). Now that, obviously, is not ethical. However, it's the same descriptor: deceptive marketing. Businesses can do similar things, obviously. For example, an insurance company might stage a violent theft and have it reported in the news before they present their front to the neibourhood.

My advice to you is define deceptive marketing, and give a description of its ranges. Saying that all deceptive marketing is fair based on two or three cases is not good. Give a counter example, and state the extremes, then argue your point, whatever it be.

[Leo Seta]

Hey they can pay the kid as much as they want to promote the Cowboy Bebop movie, that film was freakin' awesome. ^_______________________^

But yeah, ethics. Unfortunatly none of ethics has clear cut lines, it's all grey so you just have to apply what you think is right I guess.

[Centro]

There's a good book by William Gibson called "Pattern Recognition" where one of the characters is an attractive female whose job it is to go to bars and talk up movies/music/drinks/products like you said, Dice. The main character is also in marketing. I think the book would be an interesting read if you're in to marketing.

[BLUESMILE]

Merchants always use smart advertisements to attract our attention . Yet it is just an ad . We still hold the option to decide whether it is worthy of purchase . I will say this is a kind of originality and appreciate it .
To me , I think the key is the quality of the products . If I am interested in a product , first , I will seek some advice and recommendations from my relatives or friends about it . Or google it to find some related data or criticisms . I kinda don’t believe the praise which is said by those people I don’t know or trust in . You know no perfect thing in the world , so everything has its own limitations . I choose the product whose limitation or flaw is unimportant to me , especially during use . For instance , before I bought cellphone , my friends told me that the ringing of some mobile telephones would be sound distortion , and some of them would often halt and shut off all of a sudden . Then I could keep away from these troubles effectively . Of course , price cannot be neglected . But the experience of use is more significant than every smart advertisement .

So in my opinion , you can do your smartest advertisements , and I can keep my money in my pocket very well . On the other hand , I am willing to buy those called Real Stuff without second thoughts .

[Name is Yet to be Found]

If this is considered to be unethical, then anybody who is enthuiastic about a product, movie, etcetera and likes to express their satisfaction is an immoral person. Marketing just happened to catch on that - word of mouth - is an extremely effective way to advertise.

[Dice]

Some really really interesting thoughts, I enjoyed reading all of them. Sorry, I'm replying so late but I was exhausted from spending 24 hours at the library doing a paper on the ethics of RFIDs, a completely different topic. And dammit, do they really need to vacuum the computer lab at 4:00 AM when I'm not thinking clearly already.

Alright, let me pose another issue. The kid who advertised Cowboy Bebop was fine because he already enjoyed the movie and was a fan. I think that's reasonably ethical.

On the other hand, there were interns hired, who had no idea about the movie, and were paid to spread reviews all over message boards and chat rooms. I think the line blurs in terms of ethics with that. It's completely dishonest and deceptive.

I'm not saying that if someone hears an advertisement they're automatically persuaded to buy a certain product. However, there are those who are more vulnerable to persuasion because they don't realize an ad is an ad, and I'm just talking about media advertising here. The FTC regulates advertising and one of the key issues they deal with is advertisements aimed at children. Children under 8 or 9 cannot tell an advertisement from regular programming so they are more vulnerable to being persuaded. Now, companies are being sued, or at least there's a lot of consumer backlash, because of these advertisements aimed at children.

The problem with word-of-mouth marketing I see deals with persusasion knowledge. Persuasion knowledge is the idea that the more we know about persuasion tactics the more we can defend against it. With an advertisement on television we know that an ad is an ad and that it's designed to persuade. We can then make our own decisions to buy a product with that knowledge in the back of the mind.

The problem with word-of-mouth marketing is that most consumers have a low level of persuasion knowledge. It's such a new tactic and blends easily into everday life. And of course, most people haven't heard of the word-of-mouth marketing.

Again, I'm not saying that advertising makes people buy things, but it does have effects on consumers, otherwise companies wouldn't invest so much in marketing. Even more so when people don't realize they're being advertised to.

Word-of-mouth marketing, specifically stealth advertising, does deal with deception. Example, there are celebrities, who will plug the name of a perscription drug in a regular interview, without disclosing that they have commercial ties to the company. By law perscription drug companies are required to list side effects when advertising on television. By paying celebrities, the drug companies have a way to go around the law, especially because people think celebrities are recommending it out of their own volition. I don't think that's ethical because the product can cause potential harm to an uninformed consumer.

Right now there's this huge debate about stealth marketing and ethics involving the FTC and consumer activist groups. I mean just think of the levels of resistance one would put up when they see a door-to-door salesman trying to sell a product compared to what one would put up if they're asked to take a picture with a phone. Think of the difference in reactions if the tourist couples were wearing sony t-shirts, I know I would react completely differently.

The relationship between advertising and the consumer is a difficult one to gauge. Just because we're advertised to, doesn't mean we're automatically going to buy that product. However, consumers don't have complete power either, especially when they don't realize they're being advertised to and don't have proper resistance in place. They're just being made more vulnerable to be persuaded. The main problem with word-of-mouth marketing I see is the issue of disclosure.

I think it's very hard to determine ethics with word-of-mouth marketing, especially because it depends on the product, on the type of marketing, stealth or disclosed, and whether the endorser really uses and enjoys the product.