What should the USA do about the threats from muslims?

[choad]

Just reacently there were some cartoons released about muhamad, making fun of him, and the news paper that posted it in the news were burned down. now some muslims are threting to kill or hurt anyone who publishes cartoons making fun of there religion. in some radio stations in london, the talk show hosts are not allowed to mention the cartoons of muhamad for fear of getting hurt or killed. what should the usa do?

there is not gonna be a poll just post what u think we should do....

[Forefall]

Uh, why should the US do anything?

[choad]

because ther not only threating london ther thretning the usa, and let me refrase the question, do you think we should publish the cartoons, or shuld we not because the muslims are thretning us?

[Griffith]

because ther not only threating london ther thretning the usa, and let me refrase the question, do you think we should publish the cartoons, or shuld we not because the muslims are thretning us?

Dude I suggest you should rephrase your entire thread - you're making some pretty big blanket statements that might offend some people here.

[Unicorn]

do you think we should publish the cartoons, or shuld we not because the muslims are thretning us?

It depends on how much you respect other cultures and religions, I suppose.

What are your opinions on this?

[choad]

i understand why they would ack that way, but i still think it is wrong, killing someone or thretning to kill someone just because they make some cartoons about their religion is just wrong

[Unicorn]

i understand why they would ack that way, but i still think it is wrong, killing someone or thretning to kill someone just because they make some cartoons about their religion is just wrong

And the USA should enter into this issue because... you want US media to print, or don't print the cartoons?

[Griffith]

i understand why they would ack that way, but i still think it is wrong, killing someone or thretning to kill someone just because they make some cartoons about their religion is just wrong

While I agree that violence is the wrong path to take, I'm sure if there was some offensive depiction of Jesus by some newspaper some of the more radical Christians would take similar action.

[Babbo]

what's more improtant would be our stand on this.....they didn' even publish them in london and they're having problems there<_<


While I agree that violence is the wrong path to take, I'm sure if there was some offensive depiction of Jesus by some newspaper some of the more radical Christians would take similar action.yeah but are these radical muslims? it's happening all over the place...and they started out by requesting the cartoons be removed, and then went on with the more violent response <_<

anyways in America we have all sorts of crap (and here have been plenty of political cartoons with jesus in them) but it's never recieved this kinda of response <_<

[TallonKarrde23]

As already said

why would the US do anything?

Its not our problem..i say for once we stay the hell out of it...but meh, we dont like doing that as our history shows.

If your asking 'should we print them or not', i say "no". Why? Because CNN and MSNBC already said they wont show them even on their sites. So i know noone else will cept maybe crap-*** tabloid zines.

As for 'threating' the US because of this....1. we havnt done anything related so they cant threaten us about this.
2. wow...more terrorists....oh wait, we already have an infinite flow of them, some more wouldnt change anything really. So hell, let them threaten us all they want, we already have everyone else hating on us, from China to most of the middle east, so meh.

So it really doesnt matter.

btw babbo, Sasuke pwns. (ava)
edit

anyways in America we have all sorts of crap (and here have been plenty of political cartoons with jesus in them) but it's never recieved this kinda of response <_<

yeah, we've had plenty of stuff like that and i havnt seen any heads rolling or buildings burning because of it. So really, they have no reason to be whining. Yes, its ****ed up that they made the cartoons...but you know what, too **** bad.

[choad]

As already said

why would the US do anything?

Its not our problem..i say for once we stay the hell out of it...but meh, we dont like doing that as our history shows.

If your asking 'should we print them or not', i say "no". Why? Because CNN and MSNBC already said they wont show them even on their sites. So i know noone else will cept maybe crap-*** tabloid zines.

So it really doesnt matter.

btw babbo, Sasuke pwns. (ava)

it is our problem also because they are thretning us also

[TallonKarrde23]

i guess you typed before i edited my post

if you refer back again it says


As for 'threating' the US because of this....1. we havnt done anything related so they cant threaten us about this.
2. wow...more terrorists....oh wait, we already have an infinite flow of them, some more wouldnt change anything really. So hell, let them threaten us all they want, we already have everyone else hating on us, from China to most of the middle east, so meh.

so **** them and **** their threats.

[Griffith]

what's more improtant would be our stand on this.....they didn' even publish them in london and they're having problems there<_<

yeah but are these radical muslims? it's happening all over the place...and they started out by requesting the cartoons be removed, and then went on with the more violent response <_<

anyways in America we have all sorts of crap (and here have been plenty of political cartoons with jesus in them) but it's never recieved this kinda of response <_<

Well I can tell you none of the violence is happening in Canada, the muslim figureheads are calling for boycotts and whatnot (which imo makes no sense because Denmark hasn't really done anything, just that paper). I think it's just cause it's completely against the religion to depict Mohammed in any form, so the Jesus example probably isn't the best one.

Regardless, attacking embassies is definitely not the way to go and it isn't helping an already expanding anti-muslim sentinment due to terrorist attacks in the United States especially.

[choad]

i guess you typed before i edited my post

if you refer back again it says



so **** them and **** their threats.

atacually ther already have been some articals that published it.........

[Nailbeer]

It depends on how much you respect other cultures and religions, I suppose.

Indeed...and your life. First of all, there's a lot of muslim extremists out there whose threats shouldn't be taken lightly. A lot of them will sit there boiling in quiet rage, but a lot of them would actually do something. This could easily turn into a disaster, in my opinion. Religion is a powerful thing--This was proved when the world trade center was destroyed. This may be just the thing osama or whoever needs to sway the muslim extremists back to his side.

But second, we need to determine how much force the threat commands. Are they all talk or can they back it up? I don't know...Last I heard, we were kicking *** in iraq...But what if that's not their main army, or maybe they can get help from other countries (maybe they can get syria and whoever to step off isreal), or maybe they have help from outer space aliens (you never know...history could use a plot twist right about now, says I ;)).

Third, we gotta consider the consequences...Even if we win, how many muslim countires will sympathize? Would it suddenly be WW3, this time most of the world against muslim countries?

This is just based off of very limited knowledge and experience of politics, but it makes sense, right? But to me it makes more sense to be on the safe side and not print it.

Anyway, my view on respecting others' cultures is this: You can think what you want and believe what you will, but it better not limit my own rights, and if you're offended, it's your own fault. (Hmm, I gotta think that last part out a little, but it's more or less true).

[TallonKarrde23]

To Choad, not nailbeer

as i said already

**** them, and **** their threats.

I already said about if they ever DO do anything they are threatening to do anyway.

If your gonna respond to my posts, RESPOND TO MORE THEN JUST WHAT YOU CAN GIVE A STUPID ANSWER TO.

[Unicorn]

atacually ther already have been some articals that published it.........

Your grammar & spelling needs help. I spend more effort reading that than I spend understanding it.

[Nailbeer]

Wait a minute, if we already have a horde of countries hating us, why do we need any more? Maybe if they can stop their own squabbles they can start a major scale war with the U.S., and how prepared are we for a large-scale assault with a lot of our troops in iraq (or whatever...I don't know how many of our troops are over there)...Even if we had all our troops here defending, could we defend ourselves from all of them? And don't all of those other countries combined have more nukes than us (or do they? I dunno...are we that awesome)? And really...If that happened, how many of our allies would back out?

Edit--Nailbighter? Wassat s'posed to mean? :p

[choad]

Your grammar & spelling needs help. I spend more effort reading that than I spend understanding it.

lol ya i know, i was not born with the ability to spell correctly, sorry bout that

[Griffith]

Alright I can feel this thread rapidly degrading into senseless garbage, but:



Anyway, my view on respecting others' cultures is this: You can think what you want and believe what you will, but it better not limit my own rights, and if you're offended, it's your own fault. (Hmm, I gotta think that last part out a little, but it's more or less true).

Agreed that beliefs shouldn't limit anyone else's right, but if your theory was openly applied to everything, the world would be in chaos probably. A level of respect for others should be maintained at all time just to keep things relatively decent imo - and respect for others means realizing that some material is sensitive and making an attempt to avoid it.

[Nailbeer]

Alright I can feel this thread rapidly degrading into senseless garbage, but:



Agreed that beliefs shouldn't limit anyone else's right, but if your theory was openly applied to everything, the world would be in chaos probably. A level of respect for others should be maintained at all time just to keep things relatively decent imo - and respect for others means realizing that some material is sensitive and making an attempt to avoid it.

...Or at least to big guys. :p Nah, I figure if only a few people share my views on that then it's all cool...Belief doesn't change fact.

[TallonKarrde23]

Wait a minute, if we already have a horde of countries hating us, why do we need any more? Maybe if they can stop their own squabbles they can start a major scale war with the U.S., and how prepared are we for a large-scale assault with a lot of our troops in iraq (or whatever...I don't know how many of our troops are over there)...Even if we had all our troops here defending, could we defend ourselves from all of them? And don't all of those other countries combined have more nukes than us (or do they? I dunno...are we that awesome)? And really...If that happened, how many of our allies would back out?

Edit--Nailbighter? Wassat s'posed to mean? :p


it was a typo on my part, lmao...im not paying attention and my subconcious said "nailbighter" cuz its more usually seen then nailbeer. lol, sorry bout that.

as for that

Its true though, just about the entire world hates the US, and while most countries act like they are neutral about us, harbor a deep hatred for us.

If they all teamed up on us? The world would most likely end. Why?

World War III will most likely be.
*someone fires a nuke at the US.*
*US fires nukes back*
*everyone fires nukes at US*
*US fires nukes back at everyone*
*Nukes finally hit and blow everything to **** and radiation spreads and kills anyone somehow unaffected by the massive amount of gigantic explosions occuring over the entire map.*

Buuuut, politics would keep it safer probably. But i think that'd be the more fun way to go out and take the whole planet with us.

[Unicorn]

But i think that'd be the more fun way to go out and take the whole planet with us.

@.@ When's the next spaceship outta Earth?

Seriously, religion has been, and will continue, to be the cause of massive conflicts. The best way is not to provoke anyone and learn to respect other cultures.

[Nailbeer]

it was a typo on my part, lmao...im not paying attention and my subconcious said "nailbighter" cuz its more usually seen then nailbeer. lol, sorry bout that.

as for that

Its true though, just about the entire world hates the US, and while most countries act like they are neutral about us, harbor a deep hatred for us.

If they all teamed up on us? The world would most likely end. Why?

World War III will most likely be.
*someone fires a nuke at the US.*
*US fires nukes back*
*everyone fires nukes at US*
*US fires nukes back at everyone*
*Nukes finally hit and blow everything to **** and radiation spreads and kills anyone somehow unaffected by the massive amount of gigantic explosions occuring over the entire map.*

Buuuut, politics would keep it safer probably. But i think that'd be the more fun way to go out and take the whole planet with us.

Yup...I think I'll visit those penguins...*Takes the next boat to antarctica*

Heh, but there's lots of places without nukes...Like canada, I think. I don't think the radiation would spread that far. Canada is actually pretty awesome...It's not hated by anyone, and it seems like a pretty harmless country, but deep in everyone's hearts they know about all of the bears. A horde of bears could do more damage than any nuke, I say. :p

Edit--Also...What about the islands in the pacific? Like Fiji and Easter Island and all those fancy places too insignificant to nuke?

[TallonKarrde23]

Unicorn, that is the most optimistic way of thinking

and thusly wont ever happen.

People will NEVER completely respect each other for anything from skin color to religion. This is not only the reason that there have always been major conflicts, but always will continue to be. This is the ONLY reason for war, not only religion, but other beliefs/race/culture/etc and thusly....the idea of respect for everyone equally...is an idea of a complete eden. And this will never be accomplished by the human race.

Hell, not even people of the same race, religion, culture, background, or anything else, can even respect each other. This is proven by everyone killing each other in America as it is, let alone others killing completely different people. So before we can even think of respect for other countries peoples, we need to start fixing things at home.

But that wont happen, its impossible. By trying to make everyone respect each other people feel like they are getting their identity stolen from them and that they are being pray to bias.

So it wont happen.



as for little islands and antarctica....sorry, your all dead. Radiation would be in the entire pacific and atlantic ocean and in the atmosphere.

You'd be effected. Not only that, but you'd probably die of hunger and/or thirst first. har har.

[speedphantom]

I hate how people have to blame everything on Islam. Its not the religion which hates the West. Its just the fundamentalist Muslims who have grown up in countries experiencing constant interference from the US etc.

You can't just blame all Muslims for the actions of a few. Just because the US is a superpower doesn't mean they have to take care of everything and meddle in the affairs of others but thats what they do :rolleyes:

The US can't do anything about the rioting going on about the cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, things will settle eventually. The west really need to develop some tolerance and understanding of these people. Its a totally different culture so don't expect them to think and act exactly the same way as you expect.

[Unicorn]

Unicorn, that is the most optimistic way of thinking
and thusly wont ever happen.

People will NEVER completely respect each other for anything from skin color to religion. So it wont happen.

Optimistic, aren't we? *sigh* Makes me happy to be a free-thinker. It's easier for me to be accepting of all religions and beliefs.

[Babbo]

Well I can tell you none of the violence is happening in Canada, the muslim figureheads are calling for boycotts and whatnot (which imo makes no sense because Denmark hasn't really done anything, just that paper). I think it's just cause it's completely against the religion to depict Mohammed in any form, so the Jesus example probably isn't the best one.

Regardless, attacking embassies is definitely not the way to go and it isn't helping an already expanding anti-muslim sentinment due to terrorist attacks in the United States especially.of course it is, they're have comics that're just as insulting, the main reason why it's not really good exampe is because christian doctrine says that christians should take that kinda stuff in stride <_<

on top of that muslim nations have been putting out plenty of anti semitic stuff but do you see jews attacking arabd embassies?


Wait a minute, if we already have a horde of countries hating us, why do we need any more? Maybe if they can stop their own squabbles they can start a major scale war with the U.S., and how prepared are we for a large-scale assault with a lot of our troops in iraq (or whatever...I don't know how many of our troops are over there)...Even if we had all our troops here defending, could we defend ourselves from all of them? And don't all of those other countries combined have more nukes than us (or do they? I dunno...are we that awesome)? And really...If that happened, how many of our allies would back out?

Edit--Nailbighter? Wassat s'posed to mean? :p most arab nations already do hate the US <_<


as for nuke wars? there would prolly opnly be one exchange...the US alone has enough nukes to destroy the world a couple times over <_<


I hate how people have to blame everything on Islam. Its not the religion which hates the West. Its just the fundamentalist Muslims who have grown up in countries experiencing constant interference from the US etc.

You can't just blame all Muslims for the actions of a few. Just because the US is a superpower doesn't mean they have to take care of everything and meddle in the affairs of others but thats what they do :rolleyes:

The US can't do anything about the rioting going on about the cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, things will settle eventually. The west really need to develop some tolerance and understanding of these people. Its a totally different culture so don't expect them to think and act exactly the same way as you expect.we're alking about Muslims from multiple nations here not just a small fundmentalist croup even muslims that are native to some of theses countries hav been taking part in the muslim repsonse <_<

and this whole episode is a result of misunderstanding of western culture on the Muslim side....muslims in America don't riot over cartoons; everyone accepts the fact that in western culture there is freedom of the press (whereas in arab cultures there is generally tight state control)

[speedphantom]

Ok fine there are HEAPS :rolleyes: of fundamentalist Muslims but still just need to have some understanding of where they're coming from, that was my point, not so much the numbers. I may have put a little bit of spin on it to sound more convincing :p

[Nami]

Hah..you know what? You shouldnt have even put up this thread. If someone made fun of your religion wouldnt you do something about it? And just so you know ISLAM is a VERY strict religion. And I mean VERY. Why is the Quran in calligraphy and has no pictures in it? Because we're not supposed to draw pictures of people. That is why its so offensive. People who were born after the Prophet Muhamme (PBUH)'s time dont know what he looks like. Because they didnt have cameras then and nobody drew his facial features because its against our religion to draw humans. Even I should stop drawing anime because its haram. Still going into the subject of drawing people in our religion is highly debatable and still some scholars today are arguing about this subject. What is pissing us off is the fact that you guys are drawing OUR Prophet (PBUH) and not only that, but youre ****ing making fun of him. I dont even find that funny. And its not "just some cartoons" do some research. Every Muslim on this earth has a right to be angry. Whether they make a move or they dont. Whether they hurt somebody or they dont. When you print those cartoons youre ****ing asking for it. You dont know how deep its hits every single one of us. ITS NOT JUST A CARTOON. FOR US IT IS SOMETHING MORE. Please do some research or at least TRY to understand why we are so against it. I suggest they DONT do it again. And the U.S. shouldnt do anything about it. At least not till theres a threat of some kind that is actually harmful. Besides that, I dont give a **** if they make fun of Osama Bin Laden with their political cartoons, or Saddam Hussein, but if the U.S. or any other country for that matter EVER makes fun of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) with a cartoon, I will personally hate that person forever. So ****ing ignorant. -_-

[dar]

i think this is a racist thread and that it should be deleted....

remember that racism is not allowed on the forums...

[Babbo]

Hah..you know what? You shouldnt have even put up this thread. If someone made fun of your religion wouldnt you do something about it? And just so you know ISLAM is a VERY strict religion. And I mean VERY. Why is the Quran in calligraphy and has no pictures in it? Because we're not supposed to draw pictures of people. That is why its so offensive. People who were born after the Prophet Muhamme (PBUH)'s time dont know what he looks like. Because they didnt have cameras then and nobody drew his facial features because its against our religion to draw humans. Even I should stop drawing anime because its haram. Still going into the subject of drawing people in our religion is highly debatable and still some scholars today are arguing about this subject. What is pissing us off is the fact that you guys are drawing OUR Prophet (PBUH) and not only that, but youre ****ing making fun of him. I dont even find that funny. And its not "just some cartoons" do some research. Every Muslim on this earth has a right to be angry. Whether they make a move or they dont. Whether they hurt somebody or they dont. When you print those cartoons youre ****ing asking for it. You dont know how deep its hits every single one of us. ITS NOT JUST A CARTOON. FOR US IT IS SOMETHING MORE. Please do some research or at least TRY to understand why we are so against it. I suggest they DONT do it again. And the U.S. shouldnt do anything about it. At least not till theres a threat of some kind that is actually harmful. Besides that, I dont give a **** if they make fun of Osama Bin Laden with their political cartoons, or Saddam Hussein, but if the U.S. or any other country for that matter EVER makes fun of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) with a cartoon, I will personally hate that person forever. So ****ing ignorant. -_-no what's ignorant is doing similiar things to Jews for decades but god forbid that someone should do something to Islam...and no babbo can easily say that as a christian that he would not take offense to someone defamating an image of christ; babbo would take it in stride because that's simply the best way to take something like that....openly attacking (and generalizing...who are "you people" ? ) will only make things worse, just like the muslim communites current actions have done so <_< The current actions being taken will not help the already deteriorating image that the Muslim nation has and anyone with the slightest bit of common sense would know that <_<

another thing to cosider is that in secular society where particuarly in the west there is a considerably smaller emphasis on religion, rights such as freedom of the press hold at least as much importance to some people as any God or religious figure <_<


i think this is a racist thread and that it should be deleted....

remember that racism is not allowed on the forums...first off Islam is a religion spanning many races so babbo doens't see how you got to the conclusion that a topic highly related to it could be racist...second off no one is this thread has yet to insult Islam at all yet<_<

Jumping to the conclusion that a discussion on a sensitive topic is racist is something babbo would not have expected to see out of you dood <_<

[dar]

well at least change the title of the thread for now.. coz when i saw it it was like generalising it at the whole muslim community...

i'm neither muslim nor american.. so i'm not siding with any... just make it so that it will be alright to our muslim posters.

[Babbo]

well who are the people making threats and burning down embassies? they're certainly not buhddists or something along those lines<_<

[Nami]

I dont care if they make fun of any person living right now on this earth in Islam. But thats just crossing the line by making fun of our Prophet (PBUH). Personally, I have no IDEA why you some people from other religions dont seem to give a **** if their religion is made fun of, but like I said, people in our religion arent just going to sit down and watch. Even before the attacks of Sept.11th, when there was no such thing as "terrorist" and "muslim" associated together, HAD anyone made fun of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) along with drawing him, it would have been just as bad.

no what's ignorant is doing similiar things to Jews for decades but god forbid that someone should do something to Islam...

In reply to that statement, I dont know what the Jews have done, or if they even care when things like that are happening to them, but a NOTE TO ALL: Get it through your thick heads that Muslims in Islam take things very offensively, and some people of our religion are extremists and will take things to a violent level. Now, Im not a very violent person, but if some person in school were to come up to me, insult my religion in any way, Id knock them down right then and there. I AM NOT KIDDING. I dont care if people insult me personally, insult my family even, Ill just laugh about it and walk away, or keep that anger inside. But insult my religion and that where youre ****ing crossing the line. Basically all im saying is keep doing that kind of stuff and WE WILL react. I guarantee it. So maybe the Jews didnt react violently or in any way for the past decades, but for your own good you might as well realize that youre not offending one person youre offending ALL OF US.

[epicbard]

Hah..you know what? You shouldnt have even put up this thread. If someone made fun of your religion wouldnt you do something about it? And just so you know ISLAM is a VERY strict religion. And I mean VERY. Why is the Quran in calligraphy and has no pictures in it? Because we're not supposed to draw pictures of people. That is why its so offensive. People who were born after the Prophet Muhamme (PBUH)'s time dont know what he looks like. Because they didnt have cameras then and nobody drew his facial features because its against our religion to draw humans. Even I should stop drawing anime because its haram. Still going into the subject of drawing people in our religion is highly debatable and still some scholars today are arguing about this subject. What is pissing us off is the fact that you guys are drawing OUR Prophet (PBUH) and not only that, but youre ****ing making fun of him. I dont even find that funny. And its not "just some cartoons" do some research. Every Muslim on this earth has a right to be angry. Whether they make a move or they dont. Whether they hurt somebody or they dont. When you print those cartoons youre ****ing asking for it. You dont know how deep its hits every single one of us. ITS NOT JUST A CARTOON. FOR US IT IS SOMETHING MORE. Please do some research or at least TRY to understand why we are so against it. I suggest they DONT do it again. And the U.S. shouldnt do anything about it. At least not till theres a threat of some kind that is actually harmful. Besides that, I dont give a **** if they make fun of Osama Bin Laden with their political cartoons, or Saddam Hussein, but if the U.S. or any other country for that matter EVER makes fun of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) with a cartoon, I will personally hate that person forever. So ****ing ignorant. -_-No we dont do something about it. We dont go around destroying inferstructure just because of a silly cartoon regardless of its content and merit. We are a culture that values freedom of speech and expression. In fact there have been many obscene depictions of Jesus of Mary etc. There was a painting of Mary done with poop. It was on CNN. No one jumped up in the heat of passion and try to behead the artist.

The fact of the matter is that Muhammed himself said that he should not be depicted so that he not be idolicized like Jesus. Nowere does it say that there cant be pic's of him.

Here is a translation of what Muhammed said:

"Do not glorify me as the Christians glorify Jesus, the son of Mary, for I am only a slave. So, call me the slave of Allah and his messanger."

and another:

"Do not exaggerate in praising me"

In fact there are many in your religion:

Link (http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_face_hidden/)


What I dont get is why many muslims want to immigrate into western society and not embrace our coulture and our traditions. Let me give you an example. When i emmigrated to the US, the first thing I did was try to learn the language. The next thing i did was try to blend in. I wanted to learn about the culture, the way people act what their habits are. How to speak, and not just know the language but there is a way to go about it too. That is to say i did not expect the country that i came to live in to adopt to my lifestyle and my sensibilities, I adopted to it. Had i wished to live the way i did back home i would have stayed there.

But killing and dying for the idea that you cant depict someone is just a bit silly, especially if its just a cartoon.


I don't see the reasoning in being violent to protest that a depiction of my group as being violent is incorrect.

[Nami]

Fine. Whatever. Im done debating in this thread. Ive had too much experience with debates in NT. And that only turned into flaming and crap. You guys can debate it all you want im through. Im sorry that I didnt get my point across to you guys, you just dont seem to understand the seriousness and the extreme offense we take with that drawing. I guess only if youre muslim you would understand. Seeing as our religion is much stricter than other religions thats the only way you really could. Anyway Im out so bye.

[Babbo]

I dont care if they make fun of any person living right now on this earth in Islam. But thats just crossing the line by making fun of our Prophet (PBUH). Personally, I have no IDEA why you some people from other religions dont seem to give a **** if their religion is made fun of, but like I said, people in our religion arent just going to sit down and watch. Even before the attacks of Sept.11th, when there was no such thing as "terrorist" and "muslim" associated together, HAD anyone made fun of Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) along with drawing him, it would have been just as bad.

no what's ignorant is doing similiar things to Jews for decades but god forbid that someone should do something to Islam...

In reply to that statement, I dont know what the Jews have done, or if they even care when things like that are happening to them, but a NOTE TO ALL: Get it through your thick heads that Muslims in Islam take things very offensively, and some people of our religion are extremists and will take things to a violent level. Now, Im not a very violent person, but if some person in school were to come up to me, insult my religion in any way, Id knock them down right then and there. I AM NOT KIDDING. I dont care if people insult me personally, insult my family even, Ill just laugh about it and walk away, or keep that anger inside. But insult my religion and that where youre ****ing crossing the line. Basically all im saying is keep doing that kind of stuff and WE WILL react. I guarantee it. So maybe the Jews didnt react violently or in any way for the past decades, but for your own good you might as well realize that youre not offending one person youre offending ALL OF US.Well for babbo, babbo likes to think that mere words and insults from humans are meanigless to God...sticks and stone for men but even less to God; and in the case of Christians actual doctrine and scripture tells us to take that stuff in stride <_<

and it's a rather naive assumption to think that Islam is a stricter religion than others; even more say that because of that it's alright to kill people because of that <_<

Babbo's head is big but it's not that thick ;D

The problem now though is that it isn' merely restricted to extremists as far as what babbo's heard now...and this is the first time....not to mention that Muslims have been further spreading rumours about some of the unpublished cartoons, even claiming that they were printed; babbo can understand objections to something that was actually published, but soemthing no one has even seen because it wasn't? if you're gonna start reacting to stuff like that then you might as well be doing it every second of your life cause babbo can guarentee that with all the billions of people on this earth there are plenty of anti muslim drawins out there just as there are plnety of anti semitic anti christian and anti-whatever else particualry in the US where offensive political cartoons are cooomn fare <_<

babbo had always been under the impression that Islam was not a violent religion....if this is what a high school girl speaks like , it seems kinda scary to think of what else is out there <_<

[Nami]

babbo had always been under the impression that Islam was not a violent religion....if this is what a high school girl speaks like , it seems kinda scary to think of what else is out there <_<

Ok last time Im replying. Like I said, I personally am not a very violent person. Actually I have a bunch of friends that make fun of my religion, and crap like that, but are only joking and dont mean it. I take that in good stride. I dont start getting angry and crap. But I mean if someone were to come up to me and start shouting in my face and crap, calling me terrorist, meaning every word they said to my face of course im gonna react. And thats the only time youll EVER find me reacting in any violent way. And If I dont react in violence thats the only time youll EVER fine me pissed off. Believe me I am a VERY hard person to piss of. Very hard. I am not kidding. And I am a very hard person to get in a fight with. Ive never so much as made a bruise on someones skin before. And I dont know in truth, if I would or would not react violently. Because Ive never been in a situation like that before, where someone was actually putting my religion down straight to my face. But I would get pissed off. I can guarantee that much. Only if you were to harm my religion and mean it, is the only time youll ever truly see the wrong side of me.

[Babbo]

Ok last time Im replying. Like I said, I personally am not a very violent person. Actually I have a bunch of friends that make fun of my religion, and crap like that, but are only joking and dont mean it. I take that in good stride. I dont start getting angry and crap. But I mean if someone were to come up to me and start shouting in my face and crap, calling me terrorist, meaning every word they said to my face of course im gonna react. And thats the only time youll EVER find me reacting in any violent way. And If I dont react in violence thats the only time youll EVER fine me pissed off. Believe me I am a VERY hard person to piss of. Very hard. I am not kidding. And I am a very hard person to get in a fight with. Ive never so much as made a bruise on someones skin before. And I dont know in truth, if I would or would not react violently. Because Ive never been in a situation like that before, where someone was actually putting my religion down straight to my face. But I would get pissed off. I can guarantee that much. Only if you were to harm my religion and mean it, is the only time youll ever truly see the wrong side of me.and that kind of talk perfectly illustrates the issue her;

this is a cartoon we're talking about it is not meant to be taken seriously and it is not saying anythin, merely illustrating the view that some people may or may not hold <_<

babbo can understand the problem with actual drawing o the prophet (which belive it or not babbo was a aware of ...had a Muslim friend in High school....might be interesting to see what he hinks of this...)
but taking apperently insulting intentions of the cartoon is going off in the totally wrong direction, becaue they simply weren't there because again It's a cartoon

Another thing babbo finds strange is that there people that claim that there was every intention to resolve this peacefully; why then did violence occur so early on? surely people should understand that in a Multi-religous environment with emphasis on the rights of people, that i would take time resolve an issue like this? Real peaceful protest never gives way to violence <_<

[Nami]

and that kind of talk perfectly illustrates the issue her;

this is a cartoon we're talking about it is not meant to be taken seriously and it is not saying anythin, merely illustrating the view that some people may or may not hold <_<

Fine. It still makes me mad the cartoon thing. And I probably wouldnt go as far as hurting someone for a cartoon. But in any case people should just start thinking before they act. Because there are people that will react in violence.

[epicbard]

babbo had always been under the impression that Islam was not a violent religion....if this is what a high school girl speaks like , it seems kinda scary to think of what else is out there <_< Whats frustrating is that we see:

Beheadings, no outrage

Kids blowing themselves up to kill others, no outrage

Kidnappings, no outrage

Money that was to be spend on food but spent on weapons etc, no outrage

9/11, celebrations in Palestine people dancing.


Silly cartoons, KILL PILAGE MURDER RIOT!!! JIHAD JIHAD



set your priorities straight



Ok last time Im replying. Like I said, I personally am not a very violent person. Actually I have a bunch of friends that make fun of my religion, and crap like that, but are only joking and dont mean it. I take that in good stride. I dont start getting angry and crap. But I mean if someone were to come up to me and start shouting in my face and crap, calling me terrorist, meaning every word they said to my face of course im gonna react. And thats the only time youll EVER find me reacting in any violent way. And If I dont react in violence thats the only time youll EVER fine me pissed off. Believe me I am a VERY hard person to piss of. Very hard. I am not kidding. And I am a very hard person to get in a fight with. Ive never so much as made a bruise on someones skin before. And I dont know in truth, if I would or would not react violently. Because Ive never been in a situation like that before, where someone was actually putting my religion down straight to my face. But I would get pissed off. I can guarantee that much. Only if you were to harm my religion and mean it, is the only time youll ever truly see the wrong side of me.Largly the problem is group think. And instigations by Mullahs and dictatorial governments.

[Babbo]

*has had his pules racing for the last few minutes since this thread started*

eveyone good? cause babbo's gotta go out for breakfast...don't want any fights or soemthing to start @_@

[epicbard]

*has had his pules racing for the last few minutes since this thread started*

eveyone good? cause babbo's gotta go out for breakfast...don't want any fights or soemthing to start @_@I am fine :D.


Whats for breakfast. I had a bagle and some eggs and stuff :D

[Ladymercury]

Just reacently there were some cartoons released about muhamad, making fun of him, and the news paper that posted it in the news were burned down. now some muslims are threting to kill or hurt anyone who publishes cartoons making fun of there religion. in some radio stations in london, the talk show hosts are not allowed to mention the cartoons of muhamad for fear of getting hurt or killed. what should the usa do?

there is not gonna be a poll just post what u think we should do....

Why is it just the muslims? Why is there profiling of one religious group?

Jesus freakin' christ. America should do nothing except mind their own business and take care of the **** at home.

[epicbard]

Why is it just the muslims? Why is there profiling of one religious group?
O_o

Do you follow the news? We are talking about them now because they are rioting, causing violence and calling for death over a cartoon world wide.

Read (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/02/12/cartoon.protests/index.html)

Read (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184203,00.html)

Read (http://www.time.com/time/photoessays/2006/afghanistan_riots/1.html)

Read (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,399177,00.html)

[Ladymercury]

Why should this prompt America? It is none of our concern. My opinion, if it affects America then we should go in, if it does not, then we shouldn't concern ourselves and add more fuel to the fire.

[aznxenocide]

Some newspapers in America (like "The Stranger" in Seattle) are going to reprint the Danish cartoons...which i think is a really bad idea. they're just trying to get more customers....it's not about "freedom of press" anymore. they're just throwing fuel on the fire. but eh that's besides the point. i'm thinking there are other newspapers around the u.s. that are going to try and reprint the cartoons...not quality newspapers like the new york times or the wall street journals...crappy newspapers like "The Stranger."

[epicbard]

Some newspapers in America (like "The Stranger" in Seattle) are going to reprint the Danish cartoons...which i think is a really bad idea. they're just trying to get more customers....it's not about "freedom of press" anymore. they're just throwing fuel on the fire. but eh that's besides the point. i'm thinking there are other newspapers around the u.s. that are going to try and reprint the cartoons...not quality newspapers like the new york times or the wall street journals...crappy newspapers like "The Stranger."
I think they should be reprinted. We send a bad message that we can be intimidated by a bunch of rioting violent prone idots into changing our policies on freedom of the press. Have guts. Kudos, print them everywhere.

As to the NYT. It has printed many infamatory cartoons before, yet I did not hear a single person try to behead the editor.

[TallonKarrde23]

Why is it just the muslims? Why is there profiling of one religious group?

Jesus freakin' christ. America should do nothing except mind their own business and take care of the **** at home.


if you dont know wtf people are talking about, dont bother saying stupid **** in the thread without prior research. Besides, 'home' is perfectly fine for 90% of America.

its just the muslims cuz their being shitheads again and threatening to kill people for stupid reasons, what a suprise huh?

[Ladymercury]

if you dont know wtf people are talking about, dont bother saying stupid **** about the US or in the thread in general when your too **** stupid to know what anyones talking about. **** you.

its just the muslims cuz their being shitheads again and threatening to kill people for stupid reasons, what a suprise huh?


Get back to me when you know how to right a sentence without dropping F-bombs :)

Its just the muslims? I'm sorry, is that the whole religion? Is that every muslim in this world? Why don't you rephrase yourself to say " A selected group of muslims who felt offended by a comic has decided to riot against it "?

kthx. I'll appriciate that ^_________^

[TallonKarrde23]

a sentence without F-bombs

Here is basically an essay on just "War is Peace" from 1984 i wrote last night at around midnight for fun. Proof i have a much more educated english then you do even when i havnt slept forever. I just choose not to use it most of the time. (http://www.bleachforums.com/showthread.php?p=429670#post429670)

As for that

No. People constantly bash the US, so i can bash the hell out of any race, religion, or people, that i want to. As well as say they are all the same, all different, all bad, or all good. Deal.

[Ladymercury]

a sentence without F-bombs

Here is basically an essay on just "War is Peace" from 1984 i wrote last night at around midnight for fun. Proof i have a much more educated english then you do even when i havnt slept forever. I just choose not to use it most of the time. (http://www.bleachforums.com/showthread.php?p=429670#post429670)

As for that

No. People constantly bash the US, so i can bash the hell out of any race, religion, or people, that i want to. As well as say they are all the same, all different, all bad, or all good. Deal.

If you have this much intelligence, then stop trying to personally attack someone because of their opinion.

This country is the way it is because of ignorant biggots like you. :)

[TallonKarrde23]

If you have this much intelligence, then stop trying to personally attack someone because of their opinion.

This country is the way it is because of ignorant biggots like you. :)


Theres a difference between ignorance and just not using your intelligence. As you obviously dont understand such things, you dont have any room to talk in this area. Besides, i dont voice my opinion at all usually. I just felt like doing it last night and today. Har har.

"ignorant biggots" like me are the only reason this country still exists seeing as how im the only person at my school getting a college education and not going to City. And by attempting to insult someone with words like 'ignorant biggots' doesnt make it better then just saying 'lmao your a dumb ****'. Its the same thing, so actually, if either one of us is an ignorant biggot, it'd be you for thinking changing your words a bit makes it any different.

edit - You know, your even moreso ignorant then I because, while i openly attack people and say bad things about their origins, i know why im saying it. You on the other hand simply say 'its bad to talk bad about people'. Its not like im making a random statement, im making one off of what these people have done to this point, and what i think of them becuase i hate everyone as it is. If this thread were about blacks, mexicans, chinese, japanese, koreans, russians, canadians, americans, or anything else i'd say the same thing just as fast.

[epicbard]

I like pie :D

http://pbskids.org/arthur/friends/images/rollovers/baby_kate_home_01_roll.gif


It is unfortunate that many don't appreciate the work that the US has done in advocating freedoms etc. It is a thankless job, yet when things go wrong who will stand up for it? Russia aka (USSR light), France, China, useless jibba jabba UN?

lets move on and try discussing this without personal attacks.

[Ladymercury]

I like pie :D

http://pbskids.org/arthur/friends/images/rollovers/baby_kate_home_01_roll.gif


It is unfortunate that many don't appreciate the work that the US has done in advocating freedoms etc. It is a thankless job, yet when things go wrong who will stand up for it? Russia aka (USSR light), France, China, useless jibba jabba UN?

lets move on and try discussing this without personal attacks.


I like pie too. :)
I just have a problem with America jumping to the rescue and yet we ain't got our backyard correct. :)


Theres a difference between ignorance and just not using your intelligence. As you obviously dont understand such things, you dont have any room to talk in this area. Besides, i dont voice my opinion at all usually. I just felt like doing it last night and today. Har har.

"ignorant biggots" like me are the only reason this country still exists seeing as how im the only person at my school getting a college education and not going to City. And by attempting to insult someone with words like 'ignorant biggots' doesnt make it better then just saying 'lmao your a dumb ****'. Its the same thing, so actually, if either one of us is an ignorant biggot, it'd be you for thinking changing your words a bit makes it any different.

Trying to cover up what you said in a blantantly racist comment with this paragraph proves nothing to me. :)

[TallonKarrde23]

i never said i wasnt racist

**** Muslims. Ever seen the 25th hour or whatever its called? Well watch the "**** you" scene and you'll see how much i care about you thinking im racist. Cuz i am, but of EVERYONE. Muslims happen to be the point of this thread, if it were blacks, mexicans, asians, europeans, canadians, americans, or anyone else that were the main point of the thread. I'd say **** them too. So yes, im racist. Oh wow, big ****ing deal.


edit - yes, i mean whites too. Afterall im not white anyway.

[Ramza]

err...this thread would probably get lock soon if this continues...

[Hybrid_Affinity]

http://www.bleachforums.com/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=5192

In all honesty this thread could have some people severly punished.

[TallonKarrde23]

Well its not my fault, so meh. As for what we should do, i already said - we shouldnt publish them just cuz its rude. But if they really want to, its noone elses business and we can.

But it'd just be more of a good thing for the US if we didnt, other countries already dont like us as it is. We shouldnt make them more angry at us over stupid crap like a cartoon.


as for rules

5. DO NOT flame (put-down, harass) other users.
i havnt flamed anyone

and

9. DO NOT bring discriminatory beliefs to Bleach Forums.
I havnt. Im one of those 'i hate everyone equally' people, and thusly im NOT discrimating, im simply saying screw everyone of any race/religion/belief/status/anything else.


so i havnt broken any rules and thusly cannot be punished for anything. I havnt done any wrongs =/



besides, this is what happens when people dont agree. If BF doesnt want things that might hurt anyones little feelings, then they should remove any sections that might have debates going on in them.

[Unicorn]

And I dont know in truth, if I would or would not react violently. Because Ive never been in a situation like that before, where someone was actually putting my religion down straight to my face. But I would get pissed off. I can guarantee that much. Only if you were to harm my religion and mean it, is the only time youll ever truly see the wrong side of me.

I totally agree. Why does every major religion think that only it is right? Why can't they co-exist with, and respect, other religions (Buddhists)? I'm a free-thinker, and happy with the opportunity it gives me to give respect across the board.

[SSJbattousai06]

Listen

Biggots?

There is biggots everywhere, including the middle east.

[Nami]

I wanted to point out on what epic said earlier, on the post where he said "I like pie." Well, I dunno if you already know this epic, but not everyone likes someone coming into their country like that. And you know George Bush is doing it for personal benefit otherwise he'd never have done it in the first place. So I dont care if the other countries start thanking america, but if middle eastern countries dont there's the reason why. Cheers.

[Griffith]

Well its not my fault, so meh. As for what we should do, i already said - we shouldnt publish them just cuz its rude. But if they really want to, its noone elses business and we can.

But it'd just be more of a good thing for the US if we didnt, other countries already dont like us as it is. We shouldnt make them more angry at us over stupid crap like a cartoon.


as for rules

i havnt flamed anyone

and

I havnt. Im one of those 'i hate everyone equally' people, and thusly im NOT discrimating, im simply saying screw everyone of any race/religion/belief/status/anything else.


so i havnt broken any rules and thusly cannot be punished for anything. I havnt done any wrongs =/



besides, this is what happens when people dont agree. If BF doesnt want things that might hurt anyones little feelings, then they should remove any sections that might have debates going on in them.

True, emotions get flared up when people don't agree, and you're a pretty passionate and vocal person to begin with from what I've seen in other threads - but you do always have something intelligent to contribute, there's no point cluttering your opinions with personal attacks. You were missing rule 1 in your quotes - to be courteous to others. There's a way of making your point without going berserk, and some of your comments are out of line =\


And I dont know in truth, if I would or would not react violently. Because Ive never been in a situation like that before, where someone was actually putting my religion down straight to my face. But I would get pissed off. I can guarantee that much. Only if you were to harm my religion and mean it, is the only time youll ever truly see the wrong side of me.

I don't see a situation that justifies violence because your religion was disrespected. There's no way of 'harming' your religion enough to call for a physical retaliation - there are other ways of putting ignorant, disrespectful people in their places. It's the concept of violence in the name of religion that has caused so much of the crap going on in the world.

[Name is Yet to be Found]

The US should not get involved. In fact, the US should be busy resolving its own internal problems before seeking to solve the external ones.

Getting involved in issues that they don't even understand can have detrimental effects on their already dwindling image. This thread is a perfect example of our misunderstanding; by stating that this joke was purely for humour and should not be taken otherwise, we reveal our ignorance to this issue. I'm not claiming I know why there would be such an outcry, but with its massive caliber there has to be good reason.

Besides being a poor mediator, US' involvement sends out a condescending message to the Middle East, as if the people are too incompetent to solve their own issues . In addition, America will not solve any problems but will only contribute to the already increasing chaos.

Stop feeding the fire, and leave it alone.

[Ladymercury]

The US should not get involved. In fact, the US should be busy resolving its own internal problems before seeking to solve the external ones.

Getting involved in issues that they don't even understand can have detrimental effects on their already dwindling image. This thread is a perfect example of our misunderstanding; by stating that this joke was purely for humour and should not be taken otherwise, we reveal our ignorance to this issue. I'm not claiming I know why there would be such an outcry, but with its massive caliber there has to be good reason.

Besides being a poor mediator, US' involvement sends out a condescending message to the Middle East, as if the people are too incompetent to solve their own issues . In addition, America will not solve any problems but will only contribute to the already increasing chaos.

Stop feeding the fire, and leave it alone.

Thank you, you took the words right out my ... hands. :P

[epicbard]

I wanted to point out on what epic said earlier, on the post where he said "I like pie." Well, I dunno if you already know this epic, but not everyone likes someone coming into their country like that. And you know George Bush is doing it for personal benefit otherwise he'd never have done it in the first place. So I dont care if the other countries start thanking america, but if middle eastern countries dont there's the reason why. Cheers.I still like pie. Pumpkin pie is nice, but so is blueberry.

Which country? And what has he done for his own benefit? Nothing so far about the cartoons yet. And America is not likely to be recognized for the good things that it has, has tried to and will do for the benefit of the middle east. It will take them some time to come to that conclusion. But largely today America is the common excuse for their troubled and failing social structure. Might as well include Israel in that. So what we get on the street is. "I dont have a job, my country's economy is failing and the reason for it is _______ (insert Israel, America)"

So thats the way things are. What the Muslim community has to grapple with is can it come to 21th century and live with us in peace in mutual benefit for us all? This comes at a cost. The way things are now, theocratic rule is the norm Mullahs like their grip on people. As more become educated and start to question such dictatorial and strict way of life. The old way of doing things becomes lost and people that enjoyed rule no longer do. For the most part they see it slipping away. So what they try to do is incite the masses such as we have witnessed over a silly cartoon. Do you want to start a war over a cartoon? Would you die for one? Would you strap bombs to your child and send him/her in a crowd to take out as many as possible?

This are issues you must resolve.

[Babbo]

True, emotions get flared up when people don't agree, and you're a pretty passionate and vocal person to begin with from what I've seen in other threads - but you do always have something intelligent to contribute, there's no point cluttering your opinions with personal attacks. You were missing rule 1 in your quotes - to be courteous to others. There's a way of making your point without going berserk, and some of your comments are out of line =\



I don't see a situation that justifies violence because your religion was disrespected. There's no way of 'harming' your religion enough to call for a physical retaliation - there are other ways of putting ignorant, disrespectful people in their places. It's the concept of violence in the name of religion that has caused so much of the crap going on in the world. well said; one of the main reasons that many western countries are doing so well is that they haven't had a major religious conflict in centuries <_<


Get back to me when you know how to right a sentence without dropping F-bombs :)

Its just the muslims? I'm sorry, is that the whole religion? Is that every muslim in this world? Why don't you rephrase yourself to say " A selected group of muslims who felt offended by a comic has decided to riot against it "?

kthx. I'll appriciate that ^_________^ WEll it's not exactly a select group this time round, it's muslims from multiple countries around the world; and most muslims (as easily illustrated by Nami's response) have felt some level of irritations at this<_<



I wanted to point out on what epic said earlier, on the post where he said "I like pie." Well, I dunno if you already know this epic, but not everyone likes someone coming into their country like that. And you know George Bush is doing it for personal benefit otherwise he'd never have done it in the first place. So I dont care if the other countries start thanking america, but if middle eastern countries dont there's the reason why. Cheers.
please stay on topic; while americas intervention in othe countries does have some relevance it's not enough to actually strengthen you argument in justification of Muslim reactions to this cartoon...all you'll do with statement like this is bring more tension...babbo hopes this wasn't your intention <_<



http://www.bleachforums.com/showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=5192 (showthread.php?mode=hybrid&t=5192)

In all honesty this thread could have some people severly punished.
nope ; this thread hasn't really reached a level of tension that would get it closed....if we had to close a thread on a current event just because tensions rose we'd never get any kind of discussion done <_<



The US should not get involved. In fact, the US should be busy resolving its own internal problems before seeking to solve the external ones.

Getting involved in issues that they don't even understand can have detrimental effects on their already dwindling image. This thread is a perfect example of our misunderstanding; by stating that this joke was purely for humour and should not be taken otherwise, we reveal our ignorance to this issue. I'm not claiming I know why there would be such an outcry, but with its massive caliber there has to be good reason.

Besides being a poor mediator, US' involvement sends out a condescending message to the Middle East, as if the people are too incompetent to solve their own issues . In addition, America will not solve any problems but will only contribute to the already increasing chaos.

Stop feeding the fire, and leave it alone.
nothing to do with us? Our allies are being threatened by members of their own and many othe countries; and do think for even a second that this couldn't eventually turn on to the US whom a large part of the Muslim world does not hold much like for? thinking otherwise is ridiculous <_<

[orihime-chan]

After all I've read till now I only have few things to say:

1- You don't need to be a radical muslim to be outraged about these cartoons all muslims are offended by it.

2-Muslims do not make fun of the prophets,they respect them the same.

3-About who said that muslims make Anti-Semitism jokes If you read more you would know that Arabs and Jews are cousins they are descended from two prophets who are prophet Ishmael and prophet Isaac sons of prophet Abraham so if they make Anti-Semitism jokes it will be on them too.

4-This is the Danish's problem and the muslims are handling it by boycott.

5-All the protests and Riots are in Muslim Countries.

6-And finally,to the Americans do not interfere in this one please because you will inflame it more and the world needs some peace by now.

[Griffith]

5-All the protests and Riots are in Muslim Countries.


I guess the burning and embassy attacks in France and Denmark don't count :rolleyes:

[Ladymercury]

Where were are Allies when we wanted to invade Iraq? Yes, I call it an invasion.

[epicbard]

After all I've read till now I only have few things to say:

1- You don't need to be a radical muslim to be outraged about these cartoons all muslims are offended by it.Show me some other group that is protesting.



2-Muslims do not make fun of the prophets,they respect them the same.
Well yah.



3-About who said that muslims make Anti-Semitism jokes If you read more you would know that Arabs and Jews are cousins they are descended from two prophets who are prophet Ishmael and prophet Isaac sons of prophet Abraham so if they make Anti-Semitism jokes it will be on them too. Well they do (http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/cartoon_arab_press_080702.asp). And even worse (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=78985)



4-This is the Danish's problem and the muslims are handling it by boycott.
It has gone beyond that. Not only Danish consulates are being burned down.




5-All the protests and Riots are in Muslim Countries.Not really. Pick a major European city and you will find protest



6-And finally,to the Americans do not interfere in this one please because you will inflame it more and the world needs some peace by now.Well Iran is #1 concern now. If cartoon looniness escalates something might be done, but not now.

[Babbo]

After all I've read till now I only have few things to say:

1- You don't need to be a radical muslim to be outraged about these cartoons all muslims are offended by it.

2-Muslims do not make fun of the prophets,they respect them the same.

3-About who said that muslims make Anti-Semitism jokes If you read more you would know that Arabs and Jews are cousins they are descended from two prophets who are prophet Ishmael and prophet Isaac sons of prophet Abraham so if they make Anti-Semitism jokes it will be on them too.

4-This is the Danish's problem and the muslims are handling it by boycott.

5-All the protests and Riots are in Muslim Countries.

6-And finally,to the Americans do not interfere in this one please because you will inflame it more and the world needs some peace by now.1- that still doens't change the fact that people are dying over a cartoon <_<

2- Of course, instead they are showing an intensely poor value for human life <_<

3- well they do it nevertheless <_<

4- and by burning down danish embassies <_<

5- and that changes what? the embassies that ahve been bruned are a territory of their respective countires <_<

6- America has a vested interest in western countries seeing as they are our allies, (not to mention Ameica basically was the major driving force in the rebuilding of western europe post WWII; it'd be be stupid to let that go to waste over a cartoon) And the

[Babbo]

Where were are Allies when we wanted to invade Iraq? Yes, I call it an invasion.actions do not need to be justified purely by an allies needs; on the contrary most actions of any country are almost always in self interest <_<

[aznxenocide]

america can't help but interfere in something of this wide of a scale. i don't agree with it, but it's just our nature. like urahara. almost. :p

IMO, what it comes down to in the future is this. Should freedom of speech/press be limited by religion?? Which is more important?? The need to respect all religions and all peoples? Or the need to allow freedom of speech, press, and opinion??

[Griffith]

america can't help but interfere in something of this wide of a scale. i don't agree with it, but it's just our nature. like urahara. almost. :p

IMO, what it comes down to in the future is this. Should freedom of speech/press be limited by religion?? Which is more important?? The need to respect all religions and all peoples? Or the need to allow freedom of speech, press, and opinion??

Freedom of speech has its limitations - it is NOT absolute. For a lighter example, it doesn't give you the right to commit perjury.

[aznxenocide]

so if people feel a certain way about a certain religion, do they have the right to speak that opinion?

i'm going to say yes, because it is simply an opinion. then do they have the right to degrade that religion?

where is the line between pure opinion and disrespect??

[Babbo]

so if people feel a certain way about a certain religion, do they have the right to speak that opinion?

i'm going to say yes, because it is simply an opinion. then do they have the right to degrade that religion?

where is the line between pure opinion and disrespect??Yup the whole idea of free speach is that people can say almost anything they want, defining what is right and wrong isn't a very easy thing to do, thus why limit something (like exchanges between people of differening religions / ideals) if it's gonna happen anyways?

anyways, before they demand that they should practice what they preach <_<

[orihime-chan]

OMG All your responses to my Reply Shows unfortunately that you all have war thirst you do'nt even want to let this opportunity slip by to go to war do you? And what's the reason now freedom of speech?? I don't see any one daring to mention the Holocaust or make cartoons about it.I say freedom of speech is good but not when you go bashing others beliefs and expect them to not do anything about it

[epicbard]

OMG All your responses to my Reply Shows unfortunately that you all have war thirst you do'nt even want to let this opportunity slip by to go to war do you? And what's the reason now freedom of speech?? I don't see any one daring to mention the Holocaust or make cartoons about it.I say freedom of speech is good bout not when you go bashing others beliefs and expect them to not do anything about itWell, no we dont. The people burning down embasies do.

And there are cartoons making fun of the Holocaust, infact the president of Iran says it never happened. Link (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=4b16647f-35e8-4a43-99dd-ce9e0d627073) Link2 (http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Politics&loid=8.0.246551760&par=0)


President Ahmadinejad has denied the Holocaust and called for Israel to be "wiped off the map".

[Griffith]

OMG All your responses to my Reply Shows unfortunately that you all have war thirst you do'nt even want to let this opportunity slip by to go to war do you? And what's the reason now freedom of speech?? I don't see any one daring to mention the Holocaust or make cartoons about it.I say freedom of speech is good bout not when you go bashing others beliefs and expect them to not do anything about it

While I agree with your opinion on freedom of speech, I really fail to see how it has anything to do with them having 'war thirst' - and I'm sure they'll find it quite offensive that you think 'they won't let any opportunity slip by to go to war'.

If you think that if your religion is offended, you are justified to use violence to 'do something about it', then you are quite the hypocrite.

[Babbo]

OMG All your responses to my Reply Shows unfortunately that you all have war thirst you do'nt even want to let this opportunity slip by to go to war do you? And what's the reason now freedom of speech?? I don't see any one daring to mention the Holocaust or make cartoons about it.I say freedom of speech is good bout not when you go bashing others beliefs and expect them to not do anything about itwho said anything about war? babbo thinks you're jumping to conclusions <_< We've been speciafically stating that we think the muslim communities violent actions are wrong, how the heck would responding in the same fashin resolve anything? Babbo's really dissappointed, immeadiately assuming that people are irratinoal war mongers because they find something wrong with what's going on? that's the most ignorant statement babbo has seen in this hole thread

found this in google in a couple seconds <_<

http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-21.htm

even if the source is jweish you can' deny the intentions of the cartoons there <_<

[epicbard]

http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-21.htm

even if the source is jweish you can' deny the intentions of the cartoons there <_<well i also posted some others from the Anti-Defamation League.

Ther is a whole section there (http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/arab_media_portrayal_jews.htm)

Whats interesting is how brutal these are. Yet the Mohammed ones are of just his head and a bomb on it

[fleezy]

I still like pie. Pumpkin pie is nice, but so is blueberry.

Which country? And what has he done for his own benefit? Nothing so far about the cartoons yet. And America is not likely to be recognized for the good things that it has, has tried to and will do for the benefit of the middle east. It will take them some time to come to that conclusion. But largely today America is the common excuse for their troubled and failing social structure. Might as well include Israel in that. So what we get on the street is. "I dont have a job, my country's economy is failing and the reason for it is _______ (insert Israel, America)"

So thats the way things are. What the Muslim community has to grapple with is can it come to 21th century and live with us in peace in mutual benefit for us all? This comes at a cost. The way things are now, theocratic rule is the norm Mullahs like their grip on people. As more become educated and start to question such dictatorial and strict way of life. The old way of doing things becomes lost and people that enjoyed rule no longer do. For the most part they see it slipping away. So what they try to do is incite the masses such as we have witnessed over a silly cartoon. Do you want to start a war over a cartoon? Would you die for one? Would you strap bombs to your child and send him/her in a crowd to take out as many as possible?

This are issues you must resolve.

epic you do realize your government and its army is trying to institute a change in society that took 2000 years for the western world to "perfect" (it's still incredibly flawed, women couldn't vote until 1918 in CAN, 1920 in USA) in the name of what exactly?? anyone with any sort of mind in the field of politics would know that undertaking such a challenge in a nation that has seen nothing but dictation since the dawn of its time is almost impossible to complete PERIOD, let alone in the short 8 year maximum of two presidential terms.

lest we westerners forget that half of the reason we think the middle east is "uneducated" as you so ridiculously like to put it, is that we've been cultured to thinking that the western way is the best. democracy is hands down the best system. why?? because of freedom?? come on, rich white people were the only ones allowed to vote for centuries. americans seem to think that if america is doing something internationally, it absolutely has to benefit all involved, regardless. you're flipping a society upside down while occupying it with armed forces, and you expect THANKS?!?

amer-ogance, at it's finest.

this whole thread has been nothing but insensitivity. i'm not going to say ignorance because there is intelligent people saying ridiculous things, but not because they don't know any better. someone mentioned groupthink whilst perpetuating it themselves. THEY, THEM, WE, US. pathetic, is what it is.

and just out of curiousity to that "IM A RACIST" guy.... what, are you trying to be funny? or trying to say something so blatantly obtrusive on the internet that you would NEVER say person to person? i care not if you're white or not, racism is racism and nothing constructive is berthed from someone proclaiming their status as a racist. you my friend, are an embarassment.

[orihime-chan]

originally posted by epicbard
And there are cartoons making fun of the Holocaust, infact the president of Iran says it never happened. Link Link2


Quote:
President Ahmadinejad has denied the Holocaust and called for Israel to be "wiped off the map".

when I said that I do'nt see anyone making cartoons about the Holocaust I meant the western world not the muslims and By The Way I'm not defending Iran's President but he did it in response.
And to Mr.Griffith No I'm not a hypocrite the hypocrite is the one who prints cartoons about muslims prophet and not print cartoons about the Holocaust.

[Babbo]

epic you do realize your government and its army is trying to institute a change in society that took 2000 years for the western world to "perfect" (it's still incredibly flawed, women couldn't vote until 1918 in CAN, 1920 in USA) in the name of what exactly?? anyone with any sort of mind in the field of politics would know that undertaking such a challenge in a nation that has seen nothing but dictation since the dawn of its time is almost impossible to complete PERIOD, let alone in the short 8 year maximum of two presidential terms.

lest we westerners forget that half of the reason we think the middle east is "uneducated" as you so ridiculously like to put it, is that we've been cultured to thinking that the western way is the best. democracy is hands down the best system. why?? because of freedom?? come on, rich white people were the only ones allowed to vote for centuries. americans seem to think that if america is doing something internationally, it absolutely has to benefit all involved, regardless. you're flipping a society upside down while occupying it with armed forces, and you expect THANKS?!?

amer-ogance, at it's finest.

this whole thread has been nothing but insensitivity. i'm not going to say ignorance because there is intelligent people saying ridiculous things, but not because they don't know any better. someone mentioned groupthink whilst perpetuating it themselves. THEY, THEM, WE, US. pathetic, is what it is.

and just out of curiousity to that "IM A RACIST" guy.... what, are you trying to be funny? or trying to say something so blatantly obtrusive on the internet that you would NEVER say person to person? i care not if you're white or not, racism is racism and nothing constructive is berthed from someone proclaiming their status as a racist. you my friend, are an embarassment.please stay on topic ;D

and technically america already did a very similiar thing with post WWII (though admittedly japan had started to take some steps towards that already)

But then again either way that has nothing to do with this, currently with the muslim communities actions which are esentially trying to force their views on others; the very thing you just spent a couple minutes saying was wrong <_<

[fleezy]

babbo my friend, i appreciate your ****-stirring attitude but that's what a quote button is for, and that's why i used it.


and yo, just for shits and giggles sakes, other than 9/11 and some rioting that was incited by anti-muslim sentiment what else you got for me in terms of muslim FORCING of views.

and no, a suicide bombing doesn't count, seeing as everyone and their blind mother knows that although the intent is to convey a message all it really conveys is desperation.

[Babbo]

when I said that I do'nt see anyone making cartoons about the Holocaust I meant the western world not the muslims and By The Way I'm not defending Iran's President but he did it in response.
And to Mr.Griffith No I'm not a hypocrite the hypocrite is the one who prints cartoons about muslims prophet and not print cartoons about the Holocaust.you don't seriously think there ins't anything anti semitic being published in america do you? there's plenty of people with anti semitic sentiments in America...you don't think for a second hat they wouldn't be able to publish something do you? The only reason why they aren't all that wide spread is that there's great symhpathy for the Jewish people <_<

that brings up another thing...if the Muslim community hadn't made such a big fuss about this then the comic which they found so offensive would probably not have spread so far to point where so many muslims had to see soemthing that is so insulting <_<

further more this kinda of stuff may just further incite people to make similiar comics afterall the first comic was probably due to disagreements with the violent acts of some muslims; what do think futher violence is going to do?


babbo my friend, i appreciate your ****-stirring attitude but that's what a quote button is for, and that's why i used it.


and yo, just for shits and giggles sakes, other than 9/11 and some rioting that was incited by anti-muslim sentiment what else you got for me in terms of muslim FORCING of views.

and no, a suicide bombing doesn't count, seeing as everyone and their blind mother knows that although the intent is to convey a message all it really conveys is desperation.Burning down embassies and threatening further violence if the cartoon isn't stopped? Babbo thinks that's plenty to show that they are forcing their views on others because that's simply what they're doing, no way around it <_<

[epicbard]

when I said that I do'nt see anyone making cartoons about the Holocaust I meant the western world not the muslims and By The Way I'm not defending Iran's President but he did it in response.
And to Mr.Griffith No I'm not a hypocrite the hypocrite is the one who prints cartoons about muslims prophet and not print cartoons about the Holocaust.Well this is from the newspaper that originally printed the cartoons way back in September:


The second report - the one on the Jesus cartoons - was aired by Denmark's TV2 television channel. It originated in a discussion among the members of Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten's editorial team about the nature of religious cartoons published over the years. Among the issues discussed was the possibility of publishing examples of how Jesus Christ has been depicted during the past three decades.
btw this is the link to that LINK (http://www.jp.dk)

They have it in English.

[fleezy]

i don't see how this is even an issue about the jewish plight in america. i mean the history alone means it can't qualify, as there are so many things associated with the holocaust that will never be associated with the muslim faith that americans won't soon forget. the holocaust is seen as a terrible tragedy that the americans fixed, and as such, the american people sympathize with the jewish perspective because of what they've BEEN through. there is no such sympathy with the muslim community and that is exactly why they are on two different planes. the muslims have been targeted ever since 9/11 and general consensus among americans is that they are responsible. so telling me that an american-made holocaust cartoon and an american-made jihad cartoon are on a level playing field is basically erroneus, IMO.


you don't seriously think there ins't anything anti semitic being published in america do you? there's plenty of people with anti semitic sentiments in America...you don't think for a second hat they wouldn't be able to publish something do you? The only reason why they aren't all that wide spread is that there's great symhpathy for the Jewish people <_<

that brings up another thing...if the Muslim community hadn't made such a big fuss about this then the comic which they found so offensive would probably not have spread so far to point where so many muslims had to see soemthing that is so insulting <_<

further more this kinda of stuff may just further incite people to make similiar comics afterall the first comic was probably due to disagreements with the violent acts of some muslims; what do think futher violence is going to do?

Burning down embassies and threatening further violence if the cartoon isn't stopped? Babbo thinks that's plenty to show that they are forcing their views on others because that's simply what they're doing, no way around it <_<

babbo dude... did i NOT just say "without incitement to do so"

you just said "if the cartoon isn't stopped"

and as such, narrowing the time these instances occurred to AFTER the cartoon had been originally published. i say again, get me some other instances of UNPROVOKED forcing and i'll gladly admit my err.

[Babbo]

i don't see how this is even an issue about the jewish plight in america. i mean the history alone means it can't qualify, as there are so many things associated with the holocaust that will never be associated with the muslim faith that americans won't soon forget. the holocaust is seen as a terrible tragedy that the americans fixed, and as such, the american people sympathize with the jewish perspective because of what they've BEEN through. there is no such sympathy with the muslim community and that is exactly why they are on two different planes. the muslims have been targeted ever since 9/11 and general consensus among americans is that they are responsible. so telling me that an american-made holocaust cartoon and an american-made jihad cartoon are on a level playing field is basically erroneus, IMO.



babbo dude... did i NOT just say "without incitement to do so"

you just said "if the cartoon isn't stopped"

and as such, narrowing the time these instances occurred to AFTER the cartoon had been originally published. i say again, get me some other instances of UNPROVOKED forcing and i'll gladly admit my err.we never were talking about american holocaust carytoons....were talking about how Arab nations have consistently published offensive cartoons about jews, and there has not been wide spread rioting over those, but when one cartoon is publisjed that offends them they decide to start rioting <_<

telling people to stop publishing something depsite their value of free speach and the fact that they publish similiar stuff about other people is forcing their view on someone...it doens't matter if it is provoked because either way they are forcing their views on someone

[fleezy]

you just said "holocaust cartoon", i live in the moment man.

the following isn't a justification on my part, but an attempt at reasoning...
the israeli/palestine war is a holy war over holy land, correct? Both sides view their opposition as infidels - in the sense that they posess infidelity. this war has been going on since god knows when (pun intended) and in the midst of war many a propaganda/anti-opposition sentiment emerge.

i brought that up to bring light to the fact that the context of these two instances are completely different.

[epicbard]

Get back on topic -_____-

[Babbo]

you just said "holocaust cartoon", i live in the moment man.

the following isn't a justification on my part, but an attempt at reasoning...
the israeli/palestine war is a holy war over holy land, correct? Both sides view their opposition as infidels - in the sense that they posess infidelity. this war has been going on since god knows when (pun intended) and in the midst of war many a propaganda/anti-opposition sentiment emerge.

i brought that up to bring light to the fact that the context of these two instances are completely different.Babbo never once said holocaust until you started talking about them <_< (go ahead and look babbo's only even said the word holocaust in the this one thread)

look d00d you need to get over the jew vs muslim thing it was an example, muslims can't go around telling people to stop publishing offensive cartoons while they're doing the same thing <_<

it's incredibly hypocritical <_<

[orihime-chan]

originally posted by Babbo
currently with the muslim communities actions which are esentially trying to force their views on others
And Americans don't force their views on other countries??

originally posted by epicbard
Quote:
The second report - the one on the Jesus cartoons - was aired by Denmark's TV2 television channel. It originated in a discussion among the members of Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten's editorial team about the nature of religious cartoons published over the years. Among the issues discussed was the possibility of publishing examples of how Jesus Christ has been depicted during the past three decades

Jesus is not the Jews prophet he's the Christians.and to why they did'nt get outraged about it well that's their problem.
At the end we agree to disagree.

[Babbo]

And Americans don't force their views on other countries?? and that makes it right how o_O?



Jesus is not the Jews prophet he's the Christians.and to why they did'nt get outraged about it well that's their problem.
At the end we agree to disagree.Babbo thinks you're missing the point, Muslims aren't helpuing themselves by responding violently to this; and a big reason is because other religious groups have recievd more and similiar treatemen but did not d so <_<

[epicbard]

And Americans don't force their views on other countries??
:rolleyes: Apples and oranges.



Jesus is not the Jews prophet he's the Christians.and to why they did'nt get outraged about it well that's their problem.
At the end we agree to disagree.He is, they just chose not to accept him. Jesus was Jewish. I was trying to show you that they publish other cartoons as well.

[Griffith]

And Americans don't force their views on other countries??

Jesus is not the Jews prophet he's the Christians.and to why they did'nt get outraged about it well that's their problem.
At the end we agree to disagree.

You seem to see nothing wrong with the fact that the Muslims are responding violently to this political slight - and it's a 'problem' that they're not getting outraged?

A political cartoon is no excuse to incite violence, I don't care what the cartoon is about. There are Muslims responding to this in a more civilized manner, i.e. economic sanctions like boycotts.

[epicbard]

I really like this one:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/files/ScreenHunter_229.jpg

It makes no sense.

Also you guys should read THIS (http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/810)

[Nami]

Instead of addressing the effects and the actions of people, you should explore the roots of the problem. Why do suicide bombers feel the need to blow themselves up? Why does Al-Qaeda put a plane in the twin towers? The reason, is because they blame their victims for the situation they're in. So how do you repair this? Easy, improve their environment. Compare the living condition in Afghanistan to those in America. Compare the living conditions of the Palestinians with those in Israel. Do you see a pattern? Yes, that is the essential reason why these things occur.

People who are unhappy, in poor living conditions, are much more likely to blow themselves up or sacrifice their lives, because they do not have anything to live for. You can see this pattern in America itself. Where are all the gang fights? In rich, high class suburbs? Of course not. It's in the poor, downtrodden ghettos of L.A., of Chicago, of New York. The people in the suburbs are in no way more "civilized" than people in the ghettoes, the difference is that the people who are living high class have a lot more to lose if they get thrown in jail, or die. They are happy where they are, so they don't do anything to disrupt it. The rich/poor crime pattern is apparent everywhere. Just take a look.

I'm not saying appeasement. I'm not saying we should give these countries charity. What we should do is help them get their economies up on their feet, and they will sustain themselves. We need to get these places commercialized. This does not necessarily mean we should destroy "corrupt" regimes. Look at cuba for a counter-example to this. The idea is that, even through a corrupt regime, we need to get education, healthcare, and other necessities to these downtrodden countries.

I highly doubt Osama Bin Laden would be able to rally a group of middle class white collar citizens to fight for his cause.

[epicbard]

I'm not saying appeasement. I'm not saying we should give these countries charity. What we should do is help them get their economies up on their feet, and they will sustain themselves. We need to get these places commercialized. This does not necessarily mean we should destroy "corrupt" regimes. Look at cuba for a counter-example to this. The idea is that, even through a corrupt regime, we need to get education, healthcare, and other necessities to these downtrodden countries.

There have been billions and billions pumped into Pallestine. What do they have to show for it? Nothing. The reason being is they are run by people who have no vested interest wellfare. It simply does not serve their cause.


The World Bank estimates that 1.1 billion dollars of the PA's budget in 2005 -- about half of the total -- came from foreign donors.

I dont understand how Cuba is a good example.

[Babbo]

Instead of addressing the effects and the actions of people, you should explore the roots of the problem. Why do suicide bombers feel the need to blow themselves up? Why does Al-Qaeda put a plane in the twin towers? The reason, is because they blame their victims for the situation they're in. So how do you repair this? Easy, improve their environment. Compare the living condition in Afghanistan to those in America. Compare the living conditions of the Palestinians with those in Israel. Do you see a pattern? Yes, that is the essential reason why these things occur.

People who are unhappy, in poor living conditions, are much more likely to blow themselves up or sacrifice their lives, because they do not have anything to live for. You can see this pattern in America itself. Where are all the gang fights? In rich, high class suburbs? Of course not. It's in the poor, downtrodden ghettos of L.A., of Chicago, of New York. The people in the suburbs are in no way more "civilized" than people in the ghettoes, the difference is that the people who are living high class have a lot more to lose if they get thrown in jail, or die. They are happy where they are, so they don't do anything to disrupt it. The rich/poor crime pattern is apparent everywhere. Just take a look.

I'm not saying appeasement. I'm not saying we should give these countries charity. What we should do is help them get their economies up on their feet, and they will sustain themselves. We need to get these places commercialized. This does not necessarily mean we should destroy "corrupt" regimes. Look at cuba for a counter-example to this. The idea is that, even through a corrupt regime, we need to get education, healthcare, and other necessities to these downtrodden countries.

I highly doubt Osama Bin Laden would be able to rally a group of middle class white collar citizens to fight for his cause.Babbo can understand helping people because of poor conditions, but that doens't mean we have to give up rights such as free speech <_<

[Name is Yet to be Found]

nothing to do with us? Our allies are being threatened by members of their own and many othe countries; and do think for even a second that this couldn't eventually turn on to the US whom a large part of the Muslim world does not hold much like for? thinking otherwise is ridiculous <_<

Before I say anything, can you tell me what the U.S. should do about this? Since you wager that war is not the answer (and it seems war is the only answer the US has these days), I'd like to see your possible alternative.

[TallonKarrde23]

People who are unhappy, in poor living conditions, are much more likely to blow themselves up or sacrifice their lives, because they do not have anything to live for. You can see this pattern in America itself. Where are all the gang fights? In rich, high class suburbs? Of course not. It's in the poor, downtrodden ghettos of L.A., of Chicago, of New York. The people in the suburbs are in no way more "civilized" than people in the ghettoes, the difference is that the people who are living high class have a lot more to lose if they get thrown in jail, or die. They are happy where they are, so they don't do anything to disrupt it. The rich/poor crime pattern is apparent everywhere. Just take a look.


its off topic, sorry, but meh.

I just wanted to point out, there are actually gang wars in plenty of the VERY NICE and expensive area's in LA and southern California. I live here, i'd know. Not to mention, the richest, and the poorest people here, are almost all in gangs (not the adults obviously, but you know what i mean).

Also, they arnt Ghetto's, stop calling them that. I live in LA, i dont live in a Ghetto. I do live in a ghetto city, but its not ghetto in the way that you can call it A ghetto. Its just ghetto, not an actual ghetto. (not to mention the biggest city in the US atm)

and im basically saying this to disprove your "The rich/poor crime pattern is apparent everywhere." because its not apparent here. Everyone here does crime, and the majority of the entire area (even the ubar expensive areas) are in gangs, or atleast are dealing drugs.

basically
1. LA is not A ghetto. It is just an extremely ghetto city.
2. Even people with plenty of money do crimes, and just as often as poor people. Atleast here.

So having no money is no excuse to do anything, because people with plenty of money do the same.

[Babbo]

its off topic, sorry, but meh.

I just wanted to point out, there are actually gang wars in plenty of the VERY NICE and expensive area's in LA and southern California. I live here, i'd know. Not to mention, the richest, and the poorest people here, are almost all in gangs (not the adults obviously, but you know what i mean).

Also, they arnt Ghetto's, stop calling them that. I live in LA, i dont live in a Ghetto. I do live in a ghetto city, but its not ghetto in the way that you can call it A ghetto. Its just ghetto, not an actual ghetto. (not to mention the biggest city in the US atm)

and im basically saying this to disprove your "The rich/poor crime pattern is apparent everywhere." because its not apparent here. Everyone here does crime, and the majority of the entire area (even the ubar expensive areas) are in gangs, or atleast are dealing drugs.

basically
1. LA is not A ghetto. It is just an extremely ghetto city.
2. Even people with plenty of money do crimes, and just as often as poor people. Atleast here.

So having no money is no excuse to do anything, because people with plenty of money do the same.well that may be treu but it doens't change the fact that the poor are the most likely to resort to violent methods to change the way things are <_<

[TallonKarrde23]

well that may be treu but it doens't change the fact that the poor are the most likely to resort to violent methods to change the way things are <_<


yeah but thats mainly because people with less money usually have less education on their side. And thusly the 'smartest' and 'most efficient' way of getting themselves a 'better' life is by using violence.

I dont know, im contradicting myself now so i deleted what i typed. I guess im just trying to say that having no money is not a valid excuse to do crimes, especially not violent ones.

[Babbo]

Before I say anything, can you tell me what the U.S. should do about this? Since you wager that war is not the answer (and it seems war is the only answer the US has these days), I'd like to see your possible alternative.Babbo personally belives we shouldn't take any forceful action; though if the situation does warrant perhaps it should be taken, babbo would leave it up the countries with the problem....At The same time the US should make it clear that they support the idea of free speech even in this case a) to be consistent that States should never give into terrorist threats (and that's beiscally what these people have made themselves) and support our allies postions to date <_<


yeah but thats mainly because people with less money usually have less education on their side. And thusly the 'smartest' and 'most efficient' way of getting themselves a 'better' life is by using violence.

I dont know, im contradicting myself now so i deleted what i typed. I guess im just trying to say that having no money is not a valid excuse to do crimes, especially not violent ones. this is getting off topic, but babbo wouldn't say that it has as much to do with education as you seem to emphasize as much as the simple fact that poverty forces people into desperate measures <_<

of course it isn't good reason but it is a factor in whether or not people will resort to factor, which is why aid should be given (though how it should be regulated is something up to question) because taking out that facor would help reduce violence (at the same time babbo questions whether or not it's realistic for the US to do so with the intense hatred these people hold ofr he US, it may just go into more guns )

[Name is Yet to be Found]

Babbo personally belives we shouldn't take any forceful action; though if the situation does warrant perhaps it should be taken, babbo would leave it up the countries with the problem....At The same time the US should make it clear that they support the idea of free speech even in this case a) to be consistent that States should never give into terrorist threats (and that's beiscally what these people have made themselves) and support our allies postions to date <_<

Wait a minute...that's your alternative?????? Then why the heck are we even arguing because I agree with you. By saying "don't get involved" I'm suggesting not to resort to violence as the US have been known to.

Also, US should protect itself and its allies, but instead of acheiving this through invasion, I think it would be best to strengthen the country's defense in case the Middle East do end up targeting the US.

United States and its allies can support and encourage freedom of speech all they want, but we have to realize that this kind of freedom is unnatural there. If we barge in and attempt to change their system to something more Western, that will only offend and infuriate them further. Hence giving them more reason to target Western nations.

[Babbo]

Wait a minute...that's your alternative?????? Then why the heck are we even arguing because I agree with you. By saying "don't get involved" I'm suggesting not to resort to violence as the US have been known to.

Also, US should protect itself and its allies, but instead of acheiving this through invasion, I think it would be best to strengthen the country's defense in case the Middle East do end up targeting the US.

United States and its allies can support and encourage freedom of speech all they want, but we have to realize that this kind of freedom is unnatural there. If we barge in and attempt to change their system to something more Western, that will only offend and infuriate them further. Hence giving them more reason to target Western nations.Babbo's not saying don't get involved but rather to not get involved until the situation has been a) full assesed and b) not too early into it because things could only be made worse <_<

[speedphantom]

I agree that the violent protests don't help anything, violence never helps anything. However the Muslim people have every right to be pissed off.

Western people are taught not to react to something such as a cartoon, they just wouldn't understand how the Muslims feel about the cartoon. Muslims won't understand western philosophy and Muslims won't understand western philosophy, this is just a general statement, like my Chemistry teacher says there are exceptions for every rule.

I think its fair to say there won't ever be a completely peaceful co-existence of different cultures, everyone is taught different values and how to act so everyone reacts differently to everything. So people should be more understanding of the Muslim's actions, violence is never good but it should be accepted.

It would be fair to say that the actions and reputation of Muslims aren't improved by western media, there is obviously some racial bias evident even if it isn't admited.

[Griffith]

I agree that the violent protests don't help anything, violence never helps anything. However the Muslim people have every right to be pissed off.

Western people are taught not to react to something such as a cartoon, they just wouldn't understand how the Muslims feel about the cartoon. Muslims won't understand western philosophy and Muslims won't understand western philosophy, this is just a general statement, like my Chemistry teacher says there are exceptions for every rule.

I think its fair to say there won't ever be a completely peaceful co-existence of different cultures, everyone is taught different values and how to act so everyone reacts differently to everything. So people should be more understanding of the Muslim's actions, violence is never good but it should be accepted.

It would be fair to say that the actions and reputation of Muslims aren't improved by western media, there is obviously some racial bias evident even if it isn't admited.

I'll have to disagree with that point - I don't think that their violence should be accepted, and if you too, feel that there is an anti-Muslim sentiment promoted by the media, asking others to accept their violence is not helping their case.

Them being Muslim is no excuse for violence - if we accept that as a reasonable excuse, then what are we saying of the Muslim culture?

[Babbo]

I agree that the violent protests don't help anything, violence never helps anything. However the Muslim people have every right to be pissed off.

Western people are taught not to react to something such as a cartoon, they just wouldn't understand how the Muslims feel about the cartoon. Muslims won't understand western philosophy and Muslims won't understand western philosophy, this is just a general statement, like my Chemistry teacher says there are exceptions for every rule.

I think its fair to say there won't ever be a completely peaceful co-existence of different cultures, everyone is taught different values and how to act so everyone reacts differently to everything. So people should be more understanding of the Muslim's actions, violence is never good but it should be accepted.

It would be fair to say that the actions and reputation of Muslims aren't improved by western media, there is obviously some racial bias evident even if it isn't admited.how would Muslims that live in Denmark, France, England etc etc not understand the idea (and significance) of free speech :confused:

[Miharu-san]

how would Muslims that live in Denmark, France, England etc etc not understand the idea (and significance) of free speech :confused:

They do. That's the problem as well.

The muslims who live here in Denmark understand the need to freedom of speech and a lot of muslims who live here, consider Denmark as Their country. Their Flag. As well.. They're an integrated part of the Danish society and we wish them no harm at all. We live in the same country, share the same air.

Of course, there are always and will always be those who go to the extreme. Reports here have shown that a group of "Imams" as they're called here I think, has been travelling around the muslim countries, portraying Wrong pictures. The drawings plus some pictures that were taken in France and not here. This I personally find as Betrayal of ones country.

No-one meant any harm by these drawings. It's just a simple way of "having fun". Of course, it's important to respect other people's religions. But, we have a HUGE amount of drawings and what-not of our religion. Drawings of Jesus and God who are sitting on a pig or something, I dunno..

Also, the Koran can be read in a lot of ways. Muhammed was prophet.. Not a God. I heard from one of MY Muslim friends that the Koran stated that it was forbidden to draw any pictures of Gods. So I don't see why this overreaction is so huge. Muhammed was a Prophet.. Not.. a God.

But This is a subject we will never agree on. I'd just like to say, as a Danish citizen, that we DO NOT hate Muslims. Quite the contrary actually. We welcome them into our homes as we would any other. While that may not portray from the political side of the country, that doesn't mean that the whole country feels the same way. The overreaction should be solely towards a few people and Not the whole country.

Anyway.. I'm.. tired now.. x___x *poofs*

[Babbo]

They do. That's the problem as well.

The mulsims who live here in Denmark understand the need to freedom of speech and a lot of muslims who live here, consider Denmark as Their country. Their Flag. As well.. They're an integrated part of the Danish society and we wish them no harm at all. We live in the same country, share the same air.

Of course, there are always and will always be those who go to the extreme. Reports here hav shown that a group of "Imams" as they're called here I think, has been travelling around the muslim countries, protraying Wrong pictures. The drawings plus some pictures that were taken in France and not here. This I personally find as Betrayal of ones country.

No-one meant any harm by these drawings. It's just a simple way of "having fun". Of course, it's important to respect other people's religions. But, we have a HUGE amount of drawings and what-not of our religion. Drawings of Jesus and God who are sitting on a pig or something, I dunno..

Also, the Koran can be read in a lot of ways. Muhammed was prophet.. Not a God. I heard from one of MY Muslim friends that the Koran stated that it was forbidden to draw any pictures of Gods. So I don't see why this overreaction is so huge. Muhammed was a Prophet.. Not.. a God.

But This is a subject we will never agree on. I'd just like to say, as a Danish citizen, that we DO NOT hate Muslims. Quite the contrary actually. We welcome them into our homes as we would any other. While that may not portray from the political side of the country, that doesn't mean that the whole country feels the same way. The overreaction should be solely towards a few people and Not the whole country.

Anyway.. I'm.. tired now.. x___x *poofs*ooh somenes who's right in the midst of things 0_0

weird, babbo's always thought that not having images of the prophet is a pretty much across the board sorta deal <_<

Babbo heard simliar reports of iImams spreading rumors <_<

[Miharu-san]

ooh somenes who's right in the midst of things 0_0

weird, babbo's always thought that not having images of the prophet is a pretty much across the board sorta deal <_<

Babbo heard simliar reports of Imams spreading rumors <_<

LOL. Yeah I listen to it every single day because it's on the news constantly.. >_<;;;

Across the board sorta deal? o.o Explain. xD

[Babbo]

as in they all pretty much belive that <_<

[Miharu-san]

Oh. LOL. >_>

Well, not really I mean.. a lot of the muslim people here in Denmark are very liberal and they don't think it's a thing that's worth overreacting over. I mean.. Even a party in the political system who call themselves "Democratic Muslims" debate with the state government about this issue, trying to find solutions as to how we can help make this right again.

So not all muslims believe that portraying pictures of Muhammed is a bad thing, just the majority of the more believing groups.

o.o;

[Desken]

The danish drawer had his right to draw what he pleased...just as it has been done with other religions.
If the muslim consider it offending they can simply decide to ignore it as every other hyper-religious guy. It's like those lame jokes about pedophilians...it sucks but you can pretty much live on anyways!

Indeed the koran as a friend of mine told me (she studies this kinds of stuff) is not exactly clear and muslims can interpret the various lines as they pretty much please...that's what makes this religion so hard to deal with.

[epicbard]

Guys, seems like their attention span on this issue was not very long.

Nothing going on like last week. -_-

muchadooabootnothing.

[Miharu-san]

Mmm.. Yeah I dunno.. I guess it's blown over a bit, but it's still a large issue.. Here in Denmark anyway.. u_u

[epicbard]

Mmm.. Yeah I dunno.. I guess it's blown over a bit, but it's still a large issue.. Here in Denmark anyway.. u_uEurope in general has a problem with the Muslim community.

[Miharu-san]

Europe in general has a problem with the Muslim community.

What is that supposed to mean? Europe doesn't have a problem anymore than the US does. o_O

[Desken]

Really Denmark isn't one of thsoe countries that hits much the general news. Not saying anything bad bout you guys.....
Excellent cookies....yum yum!
And what's up with having a mermaid watch over the coast for you guys...
It'll all melt away in a couple of months.

[Babbo]

What is that supposed to mean? Europe doesn't have a problem anymore than the US does. o_OYeah but epics canadian...no would waste a bomb on canada <_<

JK ?

[epicbard]

What is that supposed to mean? Europe doesn't have a problem anymore than the US does. o_OWell i seem to recall a lot of marshmallow bonfires in France etc. Killing of film maker for making a movie... Not integrating into society. Forming their own niche societies.

Link (http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1126/p08s02-comv.html)

Link (http://www.brookings.org/views/op-ed/fellows/taspinar20030301.htm)

Link (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1292160/posts)

But this is another topic XD

[Desken]

Blame Canada
Blame Canada
They're not even a real country anyway la la la...

(the heck, I'm canadian too)

[epicbard]

Yeah but epics canadian...no would waste a bomb on canada <_<
JK ?Thats just a pipe dream. Canada had such a lack immigration policy toward the Middle East... so many shady characters came here, not to mention terrorist groups.


Blame Canada
Blame Canada
They're not even a real country anyway la la la...

(the heck, I'm canadian too)roflbbq true

commonwealth -______-

[Miharu-san]

Really Denmark isn't one of thsoe countries that hits much the general news. Not saying anything bad bout you guys.....
Excellent cookies....yum yum!
And what's up with having a mermaid watch over the coast for you guys...
It'll all melt away in a couple of months.

....Having a mermaid watching over our coast? o_O Say what now?

Dude, Epic, how about the US bombings and such..? >_> I'd say we have all the equal amount of "problems" but yeah.. this is another subject.. u_u

lol Babbo.. Canada.. >_>

XD

[Babbo]

**** they won't us live over there T_T...lets bomb them!!!!...yeah that'll change their minds...;p

[epicbard]

**** they won't us live over there T_T...lets bomb them!!!!...yeah that'll change their minds...;pOMGBBQ... what are you saying man. >< rofl

i am all for bombing things tho >_>

[Babbo]

well babbos trying to work out the logic of bombing canada over immigratoin policy regarding the middle eas....it just doen'st work out in babbo's head @_@

[Miharu-san]

You guys are nuts.. XDDD

How can you be "for" bombings? >_> well.. *cough*

Anyway, I say, lets not get into that subject.. >_<

[epicbard]

well babbos trying to work out the logic of bombing canada over immigratoin policy regarding the middle eas....it just doen'st work out in babbo's head @_@well after 9/11 they made it similar to the US.

but go right ahead. i dont mind canada being another state(s)... but by all means keep away form the Qubes... they be wacky >_>

[Babbo]

well after 9/11 they made it similar to the US.

but go right ahead. i dont mind canada being another state(s)... but by all means keep away form the Qubes... they be wacky >_>babbo already told you...we already have all the maple syrup we'll ever need 0_0;;

[epicbard]

babbo already told you...we already have all the maple syrup we'll ever need 0_0;;What aboot the OIL and Wood? There be plenty of those

[Miharu-san]

*cough*

Babbo, isn't this.. a bit off topic..? >_>

[Babbo]

yeah but noody is discussing the topic...babbo's hoping that the longer it's up at the top the sooner we can get back to a real discussion

*excuses excuses*


What aboot the OIL and Wood? There be plenty of those
and lumberjacks....we could make a lumber jack special ops!!!....hmmm Maybe we could annex canada...or at least the part with the most lumberjacks *strokes beard thoughtfully*

[Miharu-san]

lol, I see, I see.. very valid reasons.. yes.. *nods* x)

[nstf]

There is nothing we can do about the people, we aren't at war with them we are at war with ideals and a view on life, one that we can't change because it's so rooted in their culture and religion.

either both sides will keep waging wars against each other, with the odd terror attack thrown in... or one side will say **** it and just completely remove the other from existance.

[speedphantom]

I'll have to disagree with that point - I don't think that their violence should be accepted, and if you too, feel that there is an anti-Muslim sentiment promoted by the media, asking others to accept their violence is not helping their case.

Them being Muslim is no excuse for violence - if we accept that as a reasonable excuse, then what are we saying of the Muslim culture?Sorry >_> that came out wrong, violence should be understood but not accepted >_> bad error there >_>

[nstf]

Understood doesn't mean squat.

I can understand why they do it, but I don't agree with it. I can understand why germans killed jews, but I don't agree with it, I can understand why christians bomb abortion clinics, I don't agree with it. I can understand why african dictators slaughter there own people, I don't agree with it.

All of their reasons are piss poor.

[Name is Yet to be Found]

Religious conflicts never have good reason, if any reason at all. In fact, mankind as a whole will never have good reason to act as such, simply because there is none. We live in an irrational world where rationality seems to be limited to only one or a few people. Unfortunately, those who can reason well are usually outcasts.

Just a question though, what do you mean to understand violence?

Oh and don't bomb Canada! We're building missile defense...up north!! Ohohohohohoho!

:rolleyes:

(Don't blame Canada, blame the Conservative Party OF Canada)

[epicbard]

Religious conflicts never have good reason, if any reason at all. In fact, mankind as a whole will never have good reason to act as such, simply because there is none. We live in an irrational world where rationality seems to be limited to only one or a few people. Unfortunately, those who can reason well are usually outcasts.

Just a question though, what do you mean to understand violence?

Oh and don't bomb Canada! We're building missile defense...up north!! Ohohohohohoho!

:rolleyes:

(Don't blame Canada, blame the Liberal Party OF Canada)What, they have been in power for what less than a month? As opposed to 12 some years of liberal shananigans.

Moving on back to topic.


Looks like I might have spoken out a bit too soon... More Looney Toons violence in Pakistan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4711318.stm)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41332000/jpg/_41332626_mcdo_afp-416.jpg

[Leo Seta]

Violence can never be excused, especially not with religion.

As for all of the protesting, protest against my government all you want. But DON'T you dare protest against someone's right to free speech. My country practices free speech, if this kind of fuss was made every time a religious group or minority was mocked in a newspaper or magazine, we would have had full blown nuclear war a billion times over.

[epicbard]

Violence can never be excused, especially not with religion.

As for all of the protesting, protest against my government all you want. But DON'T you dare protest against someone's right to free speech. My country practices free speech, if this kind of fuss was made every time a religious group or minority was mocked in a newspaper or magazine, we would have had full blown nuclear war a billion times over.Whats scary is that the president of Iran, Ahmadinejad believes in some sect that... according to them the Apocalypse is close at hand. They also belive that this can be influanced by human events. And get this, only after great destruction will heaven come to Earth and all will live in peace.

And in fact he put that in his UN speech:


"hasten the emergence of your last repository, the Promised One, that perfect and pure human being, the one that will fill this world with justice and peace".
And this guy wants to have nukes, and has begun enriching uranium.

Link (http://www.aawsat.com/english/news.asp?section=2&id=3730)

Link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/01/14/wiran14.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/14/ixworld.html)

Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0601200211jan20,0,3946855.story?coll=chi-newsopinioncommentary-hed)

[Name is Yet to be Found]

What, they have been in power for what less than a month? As opposed to 12 some years of liberal shananigans.

It wasn't the Liberals who planned Missile Defense in the North, so why in heck would I blame them?



To the Topic: It's not good when events like this don't surprise me.


Whats scary is that the president of Iran, Ahmadinejad believes in some sect that... according to them the Apocalypse is close at hand
And it seems that, even if they're wrong, they will work at anything to bring it sooner. There is something that will have global effects; I support U.S. on this one, although with doubts.

[epicbard]

It wasn't the Liberals who planned Missile Defense in the North, so why in heck would I blame them?
How is that bad?

but anyway. I am choosing prom dresses... visit convo thread. :D

[Stone]

As many others mentioned, this has gone way to far.
So thx to a bad joke all of this happens, actually that would had been an even worse joke if it hadn't been the truth :confused:

If this happens over cartoons... what's going to be the next??? A group of cartoon fans starting a new religion(Thats just as bad a joke as whats happening atm)

[nstf]

Religious conflicts never have good reason, if any reason at all. I

Name not yet wins again, it's a ****ing religion, relgious people fail to begin with, ofcourse it can't be rational, or have a reason.

It's ideals, one side dies, the other lives, who is wrong doesn't matter because it's religious

[Unicorn]

what's going to be the next??? A group of cartoon fans starting a new religion

I guess I'm a Bleach Fanatic. recently have been breathing and thinking Bleach. To me, it's a religion.

On topic... my ideals have been slammed as unrealistic... so I'll stop here.

[Name is Yet to be Found]

Unicorn, I'd like to here your ideals, since I'm idealistic as well! :)

[Unicorn]

@.@ When's the next spaceship outta Earth?

Seriously, religion has been, and will continue, to be the cause of massive conflicts. The best way is not to provoke anyone and learn to respect other cultures.


^ refer above... posted on page 3, methinks...?

[Name is Yet to be Found]

How is that bad?

but anyway. I am choosing prom dresses... visit convo thread. :D

Um, well not only is military build-up a non-trait of Canada, why would you put a missle defense up North? At least put in a strategic spot, it's not the Cold War anymore. And the new war isn't really about missiles, but subtle attacks that have massive effects, also known as TERRORISM.

Prom dresses, eh, I have to think about those soon.

[Name is Yet to be Found]

Why would people shoot that down? That's a good ideal, and I believe in it. It's almost an impossiblity for every single human to follow it, but if one person does it, then at least there is a small hope...however hopeless.

[epicbard]

Um, well not only is military build-up a non-trait of Canada, why would you put a missle defense up North? At least put in a strategic spot, it's not the Cold War anymore. And the new war isn't really about missiles, but subtle attacks that have massive effects, also known as TERRORISM.

Prom dresses, eh, I have to think about those soon.
Well the old USSR aint exactly gone...its just hibernating. Russia as you might know; is run by a former KGB agent... And they are pretty open about their new ballistic missiles

Link (http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20060214/43533609.html)

And its not a trait of Canada since the merry happy go lucky days of Trudeo. Canada had a pretty good army back in the day. That today, thanks to you know who is a bunch of guys in rusted old boats.

[Babbo]

Well the old USSR aint exactly gone...its just hibernating. Russia as you might know; is run by a former KGB agent... And they are pretty open about their new ballistic missiles

Link (http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20060214/43533609.html)

And its not a trait of Canada since the merry happy go lucky days of Trudeo. Canada had a pretty good army back in the day. That today, thanks to you know who is a bunch of guys in rusted old boats.with suspenders and plaid shirts?

and axes?

:D

[epicbard]

with suspenders and plaid shirts?

and axes?

:Dno axes. health and safety does not allow sharp objects on wobbly platforms.

roflcopter...

kinda like this tho :D

http://www.hostfiles.org/files/20060215062645_lumberjack.jpg

[Babbo]

no axes. health and safety does not allow sharp objects on wobbly platforms.

roflcopter...

kinda like this tho :D

http://www.hostfiles.org/files/20060215062645_lumberjack.jpgBabbo doens't belive you ;p

that looks like too many people to be the canadian army <_<

[epicbard]

Babbo doens't belive you ;p

that looks like too many people to be the canadian army <_<Those are redcoats... kinda like in Star Trek... most of them dont make it to the boats

[Griffith]

Babbo doens't belive you ;p

that looks like too many people to be the canadian army <_<

LOL

Sad...but true. Ah well that's why we have you guys;)

[taramjwi]

LOL

Sad...but true. Ah well that's why we have you guys;)o_o (is in the US army)
I feel used -_-

[Griffith]

o_o (is in the US army)
I feel used -_-

*throws pokeball* Taramjwi! go! *random synthesized noise*

[Nami]

I received this email from my muslim community.

Subject: Phone Call/E-Mail Campaign - please support

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Assalaamu 'alaykum. In case anyone has not yet heard, the Daily Illini has reprinted cartoons that are deeply offensive and are a direct assault on the Prophet (S). If ever there was a time to take action, it is now.

Alhamdulillah CAIR-UIUC, MSA, CIMIC, MWO and others in our coalition have a solid plan of action to counter the offensive reprinting of the cartoons, including an opinion letter, press release, media sensitivity workshop, meeting with the DI staff, lecture series, da'wah table, and a masjid open house. But without your help, none of these could be successful. Two initiatives we absolutely need everyone's help with are outlined below. Please answer the call to champion this cause.


Action Requested Today:
Phone Call/E-Mail Campaign

The DI did not print the MSA and CAIR's statement in this Monday's edition, which had over 17 co-signers. Please find it attached. As the DI staff has been discussing the issue extensively, let's put pressure on the DI to make sure their discussions are well-informed as to our reaction to the printing of the cartoons and to ensure that they do indeed print our letter.

Please call or e-mail the contacts given below as soon as possible, preferably today.


Talking points:


1) The reprinting of the cartoons was deeply offensive and demonstrates a lack of sensitivity towards Muslims.

2) We want to see space devoted to an informed perspective of the Prophet written by someone knowledgeable in a space as big and equally prominent as the space devoted to the cartoons.

3) We want the CAIR and MSA letter printed with all the 17 co-signers listed.
Link: http://www.cairchicago.org/presscenter.php?file=mostrecent


4) The Daily Illini has been developing a history of irresponsible journalism. We strongly recommend that the Daily Illini urge its staff to attend the upcoming Media Sensitivity Workshop that we are organizing.


Call: 8 a.m.-5 p.m.
General contacts:
Main number: (217) 337-8300
Newsroom: (217) 337-8350
Editor Jason Koch: (217) 337-8367


E-Mail:
Editor in Chief, Managing Editors, Advisor: ! agorton2@uiuc.edu , j koch@uiuc.edu, sweissma@uiuc.edu , sridharn@uiuc.edu, melinda@illinimedia.com, editor@dailyillini.com, opinions@dailyillini.com

[Babbo]

I received this email from my muslim community.

Subject: Phone Call/E-Mail Campaign - please support

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Assalaamu 'alaykum. In case anyone has not yet heard, the Daily Illini has reprinted cartoons that are deeply offensive and are a direct assault on the Prophet (S). If ever there was a time to take action, it is now.

Alhamdulillah CAIR-UIUC, MSA, CIMIC, MWO and others in our coalition have a solid plan of action to counter the offensive reprinting of the cartoons, including an opinion letter, press release, media sensitivity workshop, meeting with the DI staff, lecture series, da'wah table, and a masjid open house. But without your help, none of these could be successful. Two initiatives we absolutely need everyone's help with are outlined below. Please answer the call to champion this cause.


Action Requested Today:
Phone Call/E-Mail Campaign

The DI did not print the MSA and CAIR's statement in this Monday's edition, which had over 17 co-signers. Please find it attached. As the DI staff has been discussing the issue extensively, let's put pressure on the DI to make sure their discussions are well-informed as to our reaction to the printing of the cartoons and to ensure that they do indeed print our letter.

Please call or e-mail the contacts given below as soon as possible, preferably today.


Talking points:


1) The reprinting of the cartoons was deeply offensive and demonstrates a lack of sensitivity towards Muslims.

2) We want to see space devoted to an informed perspective of the Prophet written by someone knowledgeable in a space as big and equally prominent as the space devoted to the cartoons.

3) We want the CAIR and MSA letter printed with all the 17 co-signers listed.
Link: http://www.cairchicago.org/presscenter.php?file=mostrecent


4) The Daily Illini has been developing a history of irresponsible journalism. We strongly recommend that the Daily Illini urge its staff to attend the upcoming Media Sensitivity Workshop that we are organizing.


Call: 8 a.m.-5 p.m.
General contacts:
Main number: (217) 337-8300
Newsroom: (217) 337-8350
Editor Jason Koch: (217) 337-8367


E-Mail:
Editor in Chief, Managing Editors, Advisor: ! agorton2@uiuc.edu , j koch@uiuc.edu, sweissma@uiuc.edu , sridharn@uiuc.edu, melinda@illinimedia.com, editor@dailyillini.com, opinions@dailyillini.comwait...they're asking for their own column as reparation o_O? If that's not disrespect of freedom of the press babbo doens't know what it is...respect is a two way road ... don't ask for soemthing like that when these people are exercising their rights <_<


America is a rather secular society, with an even heavier emphass on rights ,and an even heavier history of protecting them...babbo doubts you'll get anywhere...especially if as this letter says, the paper has a history of printing offensive stuff <_<

17 cosigners ? o_O that doens't sound like a whole lot people to babbo...maybe that's cause people don't agree? and the paper has a right to print what they want. Just because you submit something doesn't mean they have to print it...

anti-semitic stuff isn't socially inacceptable....that doesn't mean they can't be printed <_<

[epicbard]

wait...they're asking for their own column as reparation o_O? If that's not disrespect of freedom of the press babbo doens't know what it is...respect is a two way road ... don't ask for soemthing like that when these people are their rights <_<

17 cosigners ? o_O that doens't sound like a whole lot people to babbo...maybe that's cause people don't agree? and the paper has a right to prin what they want just because you submit soemthing doesn't mean they have to print it

anti semitic stuff isn't socially inacceptable....that doesn't mean they can't be printed <_<exactly what babbo said. it should also be noted that many other news papers have also opted to publish the Muhammad cartoons as well as the anti-semitic cartoons that have appeared in muslim outlets. the idea being that people get to see and judge for themselves the nature of the cartoons. and IMHO the Muhammad cartoons pale in comparison to the others.

[gogo]

i haven't read through this whole thread....17 pages >_>.....but personally, since drawing humans, from what nami said, is not allowed in islam and since the picture was making light of muhammed - i can see why muslims would be deeply offended. i mean they probably wouldn't even contemplate the idea of drawing muhammed, so having a non-muslim draw a cartoon of their prophet - man i would be mad too. of course, not to the extent where i would assault buildings or people, but i would be mad.

and epic, i only read a couple of your posts in the beginning but your posts on implying that muslims should get their priorities straight....come on. most of america (can't speak for canada) doesn't really have their priorities straight. too many people are more concerned with calling angelie jolie a home wrecker than worrying about the millions of people dying of aids in third world countries. -__-;; (and ps - hope to talk to you soon T__T)

[Babbo]

i haven't read through this whole thread....17 pages >_>.....but personally, since drawing humans, from what nami said, is not allowed in islam and since the picture was making light of muhammed - i can see why muslims would be deeply offended. i mean they probably wouldn't even contemplate the idea of drawing muhammed, so having a non-muslim draw a cartoon of their prophet - man i would be mad too. of course, not to the extent where i would assault buildings or people, but i would be mad.

and epic, i only read a couple of your posts in the beginning but your posts on implying that muslims should get their priorities straight....come on. most of america (can't speak for canada) doesn't really have their priorities straight. too many people are more concerned with calling angelie jolie a home wrecker than worrying about the millions of people dying of aids in third world countries. -__-;; (and ps - hope to talk to you soon T__T)and that changes the fact that many muslims are doing the same thing they're complaining about having been done to them how o_O?

[gogo]

and that changes the fact that many muslims are doing the same thing they're complaining about having been done to them how o_O?

sadly though english is my first language....i don't understand what you're saying >_<

ummm....you'll have to elaborate. but i don't see how my opinion of how i would feel if i was a muslim would change anything.

[Babbo]

sadly though english is my first language....i don't understand what you're saying >_<

ummm....you'll have to elaborate. but i don't see how my opinion of how i would feel if i was a muslim would change anything.they're complaining about an offensive cartoon that was aimed at them but at the same time have been doing the same thing to jews for decades -_-

if they gonna ***** about something they shouldn't be doing it themselves <_<

[Griffith]

Libyan anti-cartoon demonstration turns deadly

At least 10 people are dead and several injured in violent clashes outside the Italian consulate in Libya over the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, according to an Italian diplomat.

An Italian consular official, Antonio Simoes-Concalves, told The Associated Press that the protesters were killed in the Libyan city of Bengazi as armed police fired bullets and tear gas on a crowd of more than 1,000 protesters Friday.

Libyan security officials said 11 people had been killed or hurt in total, but did not elaborate nor provide a breakdown.

No Italians were injured, the Italian Foreign Ministry said.

Security officials said the demonstrators lobbed stones and bottles at the consulate, and later entered the grounds and set fire to the building.

According to unconfirmed reports, the protesters are angry at Italian minister Roberto Calderoli, who had worn a T-shirt showing the caricatures.

Cleric offers bounty

A leading Pakistani cleric has offered a 1.5 million rupee reward and a car to anyone who kills the cartoonist who drew Prophet Muhammad, reports say.

Mohammed Yousaf Qureshi, prayer leader at the historic Mohabat Khan mosque in Peshawar, announced he would give a 1.5 million rupee ($25,000 US) reward and a car for killing the cartoonist of the prophet pictures that appeared first in a Danish newspaper, AP reported.

"This is an unanimous decision of by all imams of Islam that whoever insults the prophet deserves to be killed and whoever will take this insulting man to his end, will get this prize," Qureshi was quoted as saying by AP.

Qureshi also said a local jewellers' association would hand over $1 million US, although no representative of the association was available to confirm it had made the offer, AP reported.

More arrests

Meanwhile, another Islamic leader is under house arrest and hundreds of protesters have been detained in Pakistan amid fears of more violent riots against publication of the cartoons, which satirize the Prophet Muhammad.

Thousands of security forces were deployed across the country to prevent unrest and police were ordered to restrict the movements of all religious leaders who might lead more violent rallies.

A senior police official in the eastern city of Lahore told AP that around 125 protesters had been detained for violating a ban on rallies.

In Multan, a city in the Punjab province, police swooped on protesters who had gathered Friday morning at a traffic circle, calling themselves "slaves of the prophet" and trampling on a Danish flag, Sharif Zafar, a police official, told AP.

Protesters shouted "Death to Musharraf!" as they were bundled into two police buses, referring to Pakistan's leader, President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

At least five people died in Pakistan and Western businesses were burned after protests against the cartoons turned violent this week.

The cartoons, first published by Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September and reprinted in several European countries last month, have angered Muslims worldwide.

Islamic tradition explicitly prohibits any depiction of Allah and the Prophet.

[speedphantom]

Hmmm getting blown way out of proportion. Nothing is solved by violent protests. They have every reason to be pissed but its not helping though :/

Oh well, another few weeks and it should die down.

[gogo]

they're complaining about an offensive cartoon that was aimed at them but at the same time have been doing the same thing to jews for decades -_-

if they gonna ***** about something they shouldn't be doing it themselves <_<

where can i read about this? oh i guess i can look it up myself ^^;;

but regardless, if they do actually draw offensive cartoons that would not make jews happy, i still don't see why they can't be upset about what happened. i'm not condoning violence nor death and just the way this has been handled generally, but i see why they would be angry. unless jewish people don't allow drawings of their messiah or whoever, then the muslims who draw the cartoons and who have recently torched buildings are hypocrites. everyone has been a hypocrite before. not a lot of people do it at this level, but they're still hypocrites. and hypocrites have the right to be angry at something that offends their religion. people in general have a right to be angry at something that's religiously offensive. they don't have a right to riot and cause deaths, but they have a right to be angry.

[Stone]

As many have said before, this is likely about more then just the drawings.(if not, then these people are acting like Children from a kindergarten)
Seeing this kind of stuff has actually made me lose some interest in relligion :( Since im starting to think that what Mao said might actually be true :( "Relligion is poison" Was what he said.


The look I alway had on relligion: I hope there's something more then can be explained, but i sadly have my doubt in it :(

[Babbo]

where can i read about this? oh i guess i can look it up myself ^^;;

but regardless, if they do actually draw offensive cartoons that would not make jews happy, i still don't see why they can't be upset about what happened. i'm not condoning violence nor death and just the way this has been handled generally, but i see why they would be angry. unless jewish people don't allow drawings of their messiah or whoever, then the muslims who draw the cartoons and who have recently torched buildings are hypocrites. everyone has been a hypocrite before. not a lot of people do it at this level, but they're still hypocrites. and hypocrites have the right to be angry at something that offends their religion. people in general have a right to be angry at something that's religiously offensive. they don't have a right to riot and cause deaths, but they have a right to be angry.

there's a good handful of links with cartoons like that listed everywhere o_O

even if the jews didn't allow drawinsgs of moses and the like (which they don't have any problem with as far as babbo knows) that still wouldn't make any kind of justification ffor violence like this <_<


As many have said before, this is likely about more then just the drawings.(if not, then these people are acting like Children from a kindergarten)
Seeing this kind of stuff has actually made me lose some interest in relligion :( Since im starting to think that what Mao said might actually be true :( "Relligion is poison" Was what he said.


The look I alway had on relligion: I hope there's something more then can be explained, but i sadly have my doubt in it :(

Religion is about the faith itself dood; if you let the actions of a relatively small (cmpared to thir portion of the world populaiton) group of people destroy your opion of it then you're being a) incredibly narrow minded and b) are thinking of things too simplistically <_<

[Fenris Amon]

It's not the Muslims who are the threat, to whomever named this thread, it's the Muslim Extremists. The recent cartoon is just freedom of press, well at least here in America. If it was here, too **** bad I guess. Too bad if it makes some people angry, it IS freedom of speach and press.

Stone: religion is the backbone of every country and modern day laws, and even science in general. What Mao said is strictly from a communist point of view, Religion lets people disagree with the goverment and goes against some of their policies, which thereby would weaken the communist regime in a whole. He was just plain old stupid.

Anyways, the U.S.'s current president isn't exactly the best forgien minister, nor is he the best public speaker, which is mainly why not many people who like him are that vocal about it, while he's not a BAD president, he's just simply not one the best.

[Babbo]

It's not the Muslims who are the threat, to whomever named this thread, it's the Muslim Extremists. The recent cartoon is just freedom of press, well at least here in America. If it was here, too **** bad I guess. Too bad if it makes some people angry, it IS freedom of speach and press.

Stone: religion is the backbone of every country and modern day laws, and even science in general. What Mao said is strictly from a communist point of view, Religion lets people disagree with the goverment and goes against some of their policies, which thereby would weaken the communist regime in a whole. He was just plain old stupid.

Anyways, the U.S.'s current president isn't exactly the best forgien minister, nor is he the best public speaker, which is mainly why not many people who like him are that vocal about it, while he's not a BAD president, he's just simply not one the best.

Did you even bother to read the article posted one page back? or any of the others posted in here?

and that's why they're have been riots in multiple countries (even in europe) with embassies being burned down; dood it's already been established that this isn't a purely extremist response , even if there are some peaceful movements to get he cartoon to remove them that doens't immeadeately mean that only extremists are the ones making violence <_<

WTF does how bad the a leader Bush is have anything to do with this o_O;; ?

[Tifdevil666]

It's not the Muslims who are the threat, to whomever named this thread, it's the Muslim Extremists. The recent cartoon is just freedom of press, well at least here in America. If it was here, too **** bad I guess. Too bad if it makes some people angry, it IS freedom of speach and press.
even if it is freedom of speech/press HERE. its not that there. so to them its different. its not just "oh well" -_-

i remember reading some article taht some guy predicted a world war in 2006 lol ,-, that'd suck .-. but anyway

i dont think the u.s. should take any action right now o_0 but i dont think the places should be burned down and stuff like that ;/ their over reacting imo ,_,

[Babbo]

even if it is freedom of speech/press HERE. its not that there. so to them its different. its not just "oh well" -_-

i remember reading some article taht some guy predicted a world war in 2006 lol ,-, that'd suck .-. but anyway

i dont think the u.s. should take any action right now o_0 but i dont think the places should be burned down and stuff like that ;/ their over reacting imo ,_,

um yes it was freedom of the press that's the reason the Danish paper refused to back down <_<

[Tifdevil666]

um yes it was freedom of the press that's the reason the Danish paper refused to back down <_<
oh ,_, i didnt know they had like a specific law there about freedom of press =S

[cravenight]

Almost all western countries of that laws. Hm, people who keep printing this don't what there rights to be oppress by view of the middle east i guess.

[Stone]

Religion is about the faith itself dood; if you let the actions of a relatively small (cmpared to thir portion of the world populaiton) group of people destroy your opion of it then you're being a) incredibly narrow minded and b) are thinking of things too simplistically <_<


Your right i am getting narrow minded to some extend and yes faith can be a good thing in some situations.
Still im saying im starting to rethink about it with recent events.




Stone: religion is the backbone of every country and modern day laws, and even science in general. What Mao said is strictly from a communist point of view, Religion lets people disagree with the goverment and goes against some of their policies, which thereby would weaken the communist regime in a whole. He was just plain old stupid.

Yes Religion have done good stuff and serves as a moral in many ways, yes Mao were/is as you say plain old stupid. Still recent events made me reconcider that line:(
Still one shouldn't need religion to disagree with a government,(i know im exaggerating) but i guess its because its easyer to find a common corse.

[gogo]

there's a good handful of links with cartoons like that listed everywhere o_O

even if the jews didn't allow drawinsgs of moses and the like (which they don't have any problem with as far as babbo knows) that still wouldn't make any kind of justification ffor violence like this <_<



i know - i never said violence like this was justified. ^^

[epicbard]

and epic, i only read a couple of your posts in the beginning but your posts on implying that muslims should get their priorities straight....come on. most of america (can't speak for canada) doesn't really have their priorities straight. too many people are more concerned with calling angelie jolie a home wrecker than worrying about the millions of people dying of aids in third world countries. -__-;; (and ps - hope to talk to you soon T__T)Wow i missed this ^_^

Well she is >_>

and not everyone is clueless :D

well maybe I am.

Anywhoo I have read many a comments here following this and it seems that some of you are not fully aware of what happened, has happened, and freedom of the press in the western world, etc. In my previous posts I put in some links i hope you have read some of them. ^_^

[Babbo]

i know - i never said violence like this was justified. ^^well then you should then know that muslims need to ge their priorities straight, right?

[epicbard]

well then you should then know that muslims need to ge their priorities straight, right?Thats gona take a while. It's pretty hard to unseed such deep rooted prejudices towards western societies, and instill the concept of freedom. But anyway one must always start somewhere and the schools over there are but the logical way to go. Creating an educational system that does not focus on how America is the devil and how Jews should be whiped out is a good start. And it's not just over there that this is being thought.

Links (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2913565.stm)

I like links: Link (http://http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2489) Link (http://http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2489http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=022702C) More (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A5648-2005Mar3?language=printer)

[gogo]

well then you should then know that muslims need to ge their priorities straight, right?

what i should then know? man babbo, i know you're mod happy, but getting a little bossy aren't we....XP just kidding. *huggles*

i feel like this might start going in circles. my only point is that muslims do have a right to be angry. sure, there are many more important things in the world to worry about, but this is something that is religiously offensive and they got angry about it. to me, getting angry is fine. violence, causing deaths and torching buildings is not ok. but just getting angry at something that offends your religion, even if you're hypocritical about it is not wrong.

[Babbo]

babbo's talking about the violent stuff...they're putting out all sorts of anti semitic stuff and Jews aren't out torching arab embassies all over the world are they?

they definitely to get something straight that's for sure >_>