Hell

[Fenris Amon]

It caught my attention when i was reading over my old bleach manga's. Why is it that they kind of just, compltely 'forgot' about hell? They kind of mention it once and that's about it? Shouldn't it be very active about now? Like the Arrancar that Ikkaku kills, shouldn't he of gone to hell? What about the other hallows and such that they kill? I mean, i'd think that there would be four worlds in Bleach;

Human plane
Soul Society
Hueco Mundo
and Hell

Yet they fail to elaborate more about hell then just all the bad baddies go there. Blah, just an observation

[cravenight]

Well, alot of people think that they will be a point when hell will play a important part eventually. KT never mentions something and forget about it. Also for the Arrancars to go to hell, they have to commit sins before death. So they could commit as much sins after death as you want.

[dariusd]

Seems where all the true baddies go but we never hear of anything yet leaving hell, seems to be one way ticket. Could be possible in the future to elaborate on hell if there was at all anything to talk about besides that's where the truly evil people go never to hear from them again. I'd at least think since you can traverse between soul society, heuco meundo, earth, some method can possibly be done to go there or get out.

[raptorfalcon]

Hell is only shown when the hollow that follows the parackeet is killed. I also find it kind of weird that it has never been even mentioned again. Who knows... maybe there will be a Hell arc in the future :p

[cravenight]

Its strange that for the most part villians of bleach are not evil in life.

[dariusd]

This a bit off topic but where does a spirit go when it dies? I remember seeing Rukia and Renji mourning their childhood friends with graves? It also seems you can be born in soul society? Wonder if it's also plausible to be born in hell lol... some birthday party.

[cravenight]

I would guess it just turn to nothing.

[dariusd]

I would guess it just turn to nothing.
Goes against the whole balance theme they tried to potray, it seems to be no oblivion except what the Quincies were doing to the hollows which made it so bad they had to be exteriminated. I forgot where I saw the image of a hourglass with liquid pouring out but if that was the case it would mean that no new souls are being created, the whole energy is neither created nor destroyed only transferred could possbile be the basis for how Bleach works.

[Amidamaru]

Doesnt a soul reincarnate in the human world when it dies ? As Dariusd said, to maintain the whole balance thing ..

[balack]

Uhm, I think I missed something here... Don't bad guys become hollows adn good guys go to soul society? 0_o

[Uchiha Kenpachi]

if there is hell there has to be heaven to right?? i dont think SS is heaven... wouldnt make sense since HM aint hell

[Saffire]

Why would an Arrancar have to be sent to Hell? Only people who commit horrible sins while alive are sent to Hell, otherwise purified Hollows are sent to Soul Society.

As for what happens when a soul dies, it's still up in the air but the theory that dead spirits reincarnate back onto Earth is fairly popular. "Final death" doesn't actually go against the concept of balance, since souls can be born in Soul Society as well.

"Bad guys" do not necessarily become Hollows, nor do "good people" always go to Soul Society straight after dying. Orihime's brother wasn't a bad person, but he lost his heart and turned into a Hollow anyways. Similarly, I could see someone who did horrible things in life getting sent over before turning into a Hollow (though of course these people would go to Hell rather than Soul Society).

[#1lurk3r]

The activities that take place in Bleach are all between souls that are waiting to go to true heaven or that will be going to hell eventually.

These two places are finality and so, there's no need to bother with them.
When that giant skeletal hand with a sword came out of the gates to skewer that one hollow, that's pretty much all you need to know about the place he went.

Hollows aren't technically bad guys, they're just the unlucky souls that hung around too long on earth and became what they are.

The bad guys are the ones who can actually form opinions and still do what hollows do.

[Platypus]

Remember, in Japanese culture usually what they call hell (they appear to have taken to the western's term for the place, even though it's not the same as theirs) is a detainment area for people who have committed sins until their souls can be fully purified.

Notice, the gate to hell opens, and a HUGE sword stabs them... A huge zanpakuto maybe? Zanpakutos are soul purifiers, so it would make sense.

Remember also, a huge influence on Kubo Tite was DBZ. DBZ had a hell, but they didn't have a heaven. They had an afterlife, where instead of esoteric spiritual existances, they lead actual lives. I think that's what is taking place in bleach. Remember also, if you die in the afterlife in DBZ, you were pretty much wiped out of existance. I think the same it said for bleach. So, you might live to a rediculously old age, until your body essentially gives up, having nothing new left to discover, and being comfortable at the notion of returning your energies to the source. That source produces souls which are then instilled amongst the living.

[Djudge]

The activities that take place in Bleach are all between souls that are waiting to go to true heaven or that will be going to hell eventually.
Not quite, there is still quite the possibility that with all the Buddhist motifs that Bleach employs, there is no "final" resting place for souls. If there were, the roles of Shinigami as balancers would not be as pronounced as it's been made out to be. Given the fact, which I've stated time and again, that Bleach is eerily similar to the Buddhist cosmology of Samsara (with humans being humans, Shinigami being Asura, and Hollows being Gakidou) and Jigoku is just the opposite of Soul Society in that those with negative karma await to reincarnate while being punished while those with decent karma are sent to Soul Society to live another life to reincarnate.

[#1lurk3r]

Hmmm, interesting.
Unfortunately, my interest in this subject is so limited, I'll probably forget about as soon as I hit the go button at the bottom of this page.
But you never know...

[shina]

hnm...i belive that ss is not the real heaven but my sis say that ss is the heaven(nirvana)but i didn't quite belive it soo cause who is the main god?Yamamoto?i don't think soo and about hell,i think KT should expand it more to show there is existence between heaven and hell if it is not, don't tell me that HM is hell?cause somehow i think that heaven and hell got some connection between.

[Hybrid_Affinity]

I wonder if Vizords reside in hell and are the shinigami of hell. It would kinda make sense if they had been given some pardon for their sins because they had been punished and repented for their mortal sins and shinigami of soul society don't like them. Also because they were hollows at one point would explain their hollow side.

[aznguy28]

well ya there should be a hell as well...hmm...but once in the anime...i dont remember which epi. but hitsuagaya says....'it all depends on the ppl above' or something like that....which means tat there probably is a higher place up then the soul society....

[The All Father]

Not quite, there is still quite the possibility that with all the Buddhist motifs that Bleach employs, there is no "final" resting place for souls. If there were, the roles of Shinigami as balancers would not be as pronounced as it's been made out to be. Given the fact, which I've stated time and again, that Bleach is eerily similar to the Buddhist cosmology of Samsara (with humans being humans, Shinigami being Asura, and Hollows being Gakidou) and Jigoku is just the opposite of Soul Society in that those with negative karma await to reincarnate while being punished while those with decent karma are sent to Soul Society to live another life to reincarnate.

I would agree with all of this. If you believe in reincarnation in bleach. I would think souls that sinned would stay in hell for an equal time for those sins. In fact you could almost say it to be a fact, mainly because the shinigami acted so harshly for the quinceys destroying souls. Souls would have to be purified, and the get reincarnated, because if they didn't every body would end up in hell sooner or later. If you think about it if every soul is going to ss and then back to earth. Once you add infinity on to that, eventually every ones going to sin some time. Sense the only reason shinigami stopped quincy was for balance. If every body ended up in hell for eternity, I would think that it would also disturb the balance.

[Hybrid_Affinity]

Umm its mortal sins... I think they only mean murder.

[Morcon]

I'm really dissapointed over the whole balance thingie. It just doesn't make any sense at all. The balance between earth and SS is a dynamic balance, so if the balance would be destroyed it would quickly re-establish itself. I think this is one of the greatest mistakes in Bleach, so it really bugs me.

As for whether souls in bleach are eternal and can never be destroyed... if this was the case, I wonder what would happen to the souls killed by the Quincy. They don't go to SS, they probably do not go to Hell, Hueco Mundo or are reborn at earth. Do they go to some place that we have yet to hear of? That doesn't make much sense. To me it seems that souls can indeed be destroyed.

[QeiQei]

I'm really dissapointed over the whole balance thingie. It just doesn't make any sense at all. The balance between earth and SS is a dynamic balance, so if the balance would be destroyed it would quickly re-establish itself. I think this is one of the greatest mistakes in Bleach, so it really bugs me.

As for whether souls in bleach are eternal and can never be destroyed... if this was the case, I wonder what would happen to the souls killed by the Quincy. They don't go to SS, they probably do not go to Hell, Hueco Mundo or are reborn at earth. Do they go to some place that we have yet to hear of? That doesn't make much sense. To me it seems that souls can indeed be destroyed.

When a Quincy kills a hollow they do not purify the soul just destroy it. A deathgod cleanses a hollows soul so it can go to soul society and help keep the balance. This is why the quincy's are rare nowadays because they were beaten by the deathgods because they were decreasing the amount of souls going to soul society :eek:

[Morcon]

When a Quincy kills a hollow they do not purify the soul just destroy it. A deathgod cleanses a hollows soul so it can go to soul society and help keep the balance. This is why the quincy's are rare nowadays because they were beaten by the deathgods because they were decreasing the amount of souls going to soul society :eek:

I know the story. What happens when a Quincy kills is that a soul that should have gone to SS doesn't. The result is that there will be more souls on earth than in SS. Since there are fewer souls than normal in SS, the rate at which souls from SS are reborn on earth decreases. Thus, as the amount of souls going from earth to SS decreases, so does the opposite rate. That is, the equilibrium is maintained. The balance will not be disturbed for very long even though souls on earth are extinguished.

Even though it may at first seem like the balance would be destroyed, if you study the problem more closely, you will see that in reality it would re-establish itself. The effect of the quincies destroying hollows would be close to nothing.

[Saffire]

I know the story. What happens when a Quincy kills is that a soul that should have gone to SS doesn't. The result is that there will be more souls on earth than in SS. Since there are fewer souls than normal in SS, the rate at which souls from SS are reborn on earth decreases. Thus, as the amount of souls going from earth to SS decreases, so does the opposite rate. That is, the equilibrium is maintained. The balance will not be disturbed for very long even though souls on earth are extinguished.

Even though it may at first seem like the balance would be destroyed, if you study the problem more closely, you will see that in reality it would re-establish itself. The effect of the quincies destroying hollows would be close to nothing.But that's hardly a desirable scenario either. In order to correct things that way, you'd have to cut off Earth's ability to obtain souls, resulting in a drastic population decrease (assuming a large number of souls are being killed, which it must've been to force SS to action). People on Earth would be terrified that, for some reason, no new children are being born.

[Morcon]

But that's hardly a desirable scenario either. In order to correct things that way, you'd have to cut off Earth's ability to obtain souls, resulting in a drastic population decrease (assuming a large number of souls are being killed, which it must've been to force SS to action). People on Earth would be terrified that, for some reason, no new children are being born.

No. No concious action would have to be taken. Take this example:

If, say, the amount of souls in SS was doubled, it would only be natural to expect that the amount of souls leaving SS to be reborn on earth would double. That is, the rate at which souls go from SS to earth is proportional to the amount of souls in SS.

So, if the amount of souls in SS decreases (as it does when the quincy kills hollows), so does the rate at which souls leave SS (since this rate is proportional to the amounts of souls in SS).

That is, if fewer souls go from earth to SS, there will automatically be born fewer children on earth.

Thus, if the amount of souls in SS decreases, so does the amount of souls on earth. The balance is maintained.


That is not to say that there wouldn't be a problem with fewer children being born on earth causing media scandals, but that is another problem. It has no connection to the problem of an uneven balance causing souls from SS to pour into the human world.

[Saffire]

No. No concious action would have to be taken. Take this example:

If, say, the amount of souls in SS was doubled, it would only be natural to expect that the amount of souls leaving SS to be reborn on earth would double. That is, the rate at which souls go from SS to earth is proportional to the amount of souls in SS.

So, if the amount of souls in SS decreases (as it does when the quincy kills hollows), so does the rate at which souls leave SS (since this rate is proportional to the amounts of souls in SS).

That is, if fewer souls go from earth to SS, there will automatically be born fewer children on earth.

Thus, if the amount of souls in SS decreases, so does the amount of souls on earth. The balance is maintained.Alright, I think I see the flaw here. It seems like the flow of souls from SS to Earth would be "supply on demand", so to speak, which is why conscious action would have to be taken.

To take your example of doubling the souls in SS resulting in double the flow, the only way for that to work is to double the birthrate on Earth, so somehow you'd have to explain how SS induces humanity to, er, have more children. :) Twice as many, to be precise. To flip that into reverse, you would also have to demonstrate that just because there's fewer souls the rate at which they travel also decreases. If humans keep, ah, "demanding" new souls at the same rate as always, and there's no way to consciously restrain the flow, souls would keep leaving SS at the same rate, eventually resulting in total depopulation on the SS side.

[Ulquiorra]

the Arrancar would only go to Hell if they committed sins when they were human. It doesnt matter what they do as Hollows since Zanpakutou's cleanse them of any sins they committed as a Hollow.

[Herbert]

What if a hollows kills a human? Is it the same thing as a quincy destroying a hollow? What happens if a hollow kills a normal soul does it go away to?

[Fenris Amon]

Here's something i thought about, most stupider hallows just become hallows, whereas the smarters ones are the more evil. Think about it, Grand Fisher was most likely evil during the time he was alive, and same with Umm...the flying dude that attacked Chad. The more evil, the more power hungry. And the more evil, the smarter hallow they become. (I wonder...would Hitler be an arracar? what about Osama? XD Sorry)

[Hybrid_Affinity]

Here's something i thought about, most stupider hallows just become hallows, whereas the smarters ones are the more evil. Think about it, Grand Fisher was most likely evil during the time he was alive, and same with Umm...the flying dude that attacked Chad. The more evil, the more power hungry. And the more evil, the smarter hallow they become. (I wonder...would Hitler be an arracar? what about Osama? XD Sorry)

There is no proof that evil in mortal life means your powerful. The only thing I could see is that there isn't a clash between your soul and your hollow if your evil to begin with. The "stupid hollows" you claim are just regular people that posibly fight their hollow and seem dumb. Although if you look at ichigo and his hollow side it makes ichigo look like a dimwit. Ichigo doesn't seem evil to me so I think you are a little off. Please stay away from ppl that are leaders from horendous acts. I really don't want to talk about them.

[Fenris Amon]

It's a long story about that, that's why i said sorry :P Anyways, it was still a though; but also his hallow isn't really a normal one either, it's almost like a half-hallow, since it never manifested itself throughly. I'll have to think this more throughly anyways.

[Morcon]

Alright, I think I see the flaw here. It seems like the flow of souls from SS to Earth would be "supply on demand", so to speak, which is why conscious action would have to be taken.

To take your example of doubling the souls in SS resulting in double the flow, the only way for that to work is to double the birthrate on Earth, so somehow you'd have to explain how SS induces humanity to, er, have more children. :) Twice as many, to be precise. To flip that into reverse, you would also have to demonstrate that just because there's fewer souls the rate at which they travel also decreases. If humans keep, ah, "demanding" new souls at the same rate as always, and there's no way to consciously restrain the flow, souls would keep leaving SS at the same rate, eventually resulting in total depopulation on the SS side.

You're right. I haven't thought about it that way. But also this leads to problems. If the birthrate on earth is not influenced by the rate at which souls leave SS, then the rate at which souls leave SS is affected by the birthrate at earth. Either way, it seems uncredible to me. Do souls in SS risk suddenly being "beamed" up to be reborn on earth without warning?

[Fenris Amon]

This sort of reminds me of matter on earth per say, ney, the matter in the entire universe. Let's put it this way.

It's pretty much given fact that matter cannot be destroyed or created (There are some people like me who are going way out of their ways to disprove this. I'm just stating this because i havn't proven that it can be destroyed/created.)

Well, the same may go with souls, they can't be created or destroyed; maybe replaced . But. As matter is to anti-matter; Heaven is to hell. It's possible when souls goto 'hell' they could be reorginized and replace the ones on earth, the same goes for the souls in the soul soceity when they 'die'. The exception to the rule are the quincys, whereas they can 'destroy' souls completely. When they start to kill hallows faster then they can be 'replaced' everything goes out of whack.

[itch]

matter can be destroyed if collided with antimatter. hahaz

[Feralsoul]

Hell is a part of SS it's the punishment of spirits that commited sins, and then they purify you.

[Tomodachi69]

Hell is a part of SS it's the punishment of spirits that commited sins, and then they purify you.

...When was that stated?

I'm sure we'll see more of hell when.... Aizen dies? Or maybe when one of the Allankar dies, they'll be sent to hell, but I don't know if that would mean we'll get to see more of it.

Maybe when Ichigo kills Grimmjow *coughcoughyearight*, Grimmjow will be sent to hell and he'll drag Ichigo with him.

[Fenris Amon]

Itch: It's said that may be possible, but it's not destroyed. Colliding matter with anti-matter forms energy. Thus your just 'changing' it, not destroying it. Anyways, this is off topic.

Grimjaw just looks cool, i bet he touches himself at night and cries for his moma! Ichigo is somehow going to win. He always does.

[Tomodachi69]

Itch: It's said that may be possible, but it's not destroyed. Colliding matter with anti-matter forms energy. Thus your just 'changing' it, not destroying it. Anyways, this is off topic.

Grimjaw just looks cool, i bet he touches himself at night and cries for his moma! Ichigo is somehow going to win. He always does.

-off topic- If you think of matter and antimatter as 5 and -5, for example, then wouldn't combining the two result in nothing? Anyway....

Has Ichigo always won? Iono, would you consider the first encounter with Byakuya a loss? -shrug-

[Morcon]

Matter plus antimatter = energy
You don't even need antimatter to convert matter to energy. Ever wondered what happens inside a nuclear reactor? Matter is converted to energy, and not through collision with antimatter, but according to the E = mc^2 formula. I'd claim that matter is destroyed in this change. But, matter and energy as a whole are still conserved though.

Anyhow, that has nothing to do with Bleach at all I guess ^^

[Djudge]

You're right. I haven't thought about it that way. But also this leads to problems. If the birthrate on earth is not influenced by the rate at which souls leave SS, then the rate at which souls leave SS is affected by the birthrate at earth. Either way, it seems uncredible to me. Do souls in SS risk suddenly being "beamed" up to be reborn on earth without warning?
It's not so much being "suddenly" beamed up as it is with karma kicking in.

Look, you can't tell when you're going to be reborn in the living world just as much as you can't tell when you're going to die and be sent to the spirit world.

"Beaming up" is just a very gross generalization for what we call fate. When it's your time to go in Soul Society you could get killed by bandits, work accidents, illness, or even old age. We just can't comprehend the laws of the powers that be in the Bleach world as much as we can't here in our own. Suffice it to say, this fits in very well with the greater spiritual scope of things.

[crazysmoke]

i don't think hell would be that intresting. even tho all the baddies are there. it just a place of punishment. the badies should have no powers. even if they have spirtiual ppowers i think they still couldn't do anything.

hollows have powers and have no restrictions.

even tho hell it self might not be interesting, maybe they could do an arc about really power spirits that escape from hell. maybe azien escaped from it.

about the reincarnation thing, shinigami don't seem to get reincarnated.

Also S.S. is not nirvana, regular people cannot reach it. u have to be like a monk or something. when get there u stay forever.

[Morcon]

It's not so much being "suddenly" beamed up as it is with karma kicking in.

Look, you can't tell when you're going to be reborn in the living world just as much as you can't tell when you're going to die and be sent to the spirit world.

"Beaming up" is just a very gross generalization for what we call fate. When it's your time to go in Soul Society you could get killed by bandits, work accidents, illness, or even old age. We just can't comprehend the laws of the powers that be in the Bleach world as much as we can't here in our own. Suffice it to say, this fits in very well with the greater spiritual scope of things.

Yeah, that could also be. Though I'd like to believe there is no fate in Bleach. Especially after Kubo's little "fate=murky waters"-poem. I see your point though. There could be dozens of things that could explain why the balance between the worlds are so delicate.

What bothers me (not that much really, but a little bit) is that Kubo gives this explanation of the balance-thingie to show how it works, but on closer examination the explanation doesn't really show how it works at all. Now, that doesn't mean that there is nothing else that makes the balance-thingie work. Karma could be one explanation for it.

[Tomodachi69]

i don't think hell would be that intresting. even tho all the baddies are there. it just a place of punishment. the badies should have no powers. even if they have spirtiual ppowers i think they still couldn't do anything.

hollows have powers and have no restrictions.

even tho hell it self might not be interesting, maybe they could do an arc about really power spirits that escape from hell. maybe azien escaped from it.

about the reincarnation thing, shinigami don't seem to get reincarnated.

Also S.S. is not nirvana, regular people cannot reach it. u have to be like a monk or something. when get there u stay forever.

...Huh? Sure regular people can go there, where'd you ever get the notion that only monks and such can go there?

[Saffire]

...Huh? Sure regular people can go there, where'd you ever get the notion that only monks and such can go there?I think he was referring to Nirvana, not SS. XD

[crazysmoke]

It's not so much being "suddenly" beamed up as it is with karma kicking in.

Look, you can't tell when you're going to be reborn in the living world just as much as you can't tell when you're going to die and be sent to the spirit world.

"Beaming up" is just a very gross generalization for what we call fate. When it's your time to go in Soul Society you could get killed by bandits, work accidents, illness, or even old age. We just can't comprehend the laws of the powers that be in the Bleach world as much as we can't here in our own. Suffice it to say, this fits in very well with the greater spiritual scope of things.

just watched the anime and it seems like ur right about people dying with sickness since hisana died that way.

i just don't know about old age since people seem to live for a long time or that could just be shinigami.

and yea i was talking about nirvana. its said u have to become enlighten to reach it.

[Argent]

From what I've researched online, in Buddhist thought there are six realms - Heaven, Hell, Asura, Beast, Hungry Ghost, and Human - that you live in. Heaven and Hell are not forever, but instead you stay there just as long as your good or bad karma lasts and then become reincarnated again. Nirvana is something apart and is where you go after you gain enlightenment and break the cycle of reincarnation.

Kubo seems to be using these ideas and using them to his own purpose. Soul Society doesn't fit nicely into the descriptions of Heaven or Asuras or Beast but seems to be aspects of all three of these things mixed together.

[Djudge]

From what I've researched online, in Buddhist thought there are six realms - Heaven, Hell, Asura, Beast, Hungry Ghost, and Human - that you live in. Heaven and Hell are not forever, but instead you stay there just as long as your good or bad karma lasts and then become reincarnated again. Nirvana is something apart and is where you go after you gain enlightenment and break the cycle of reincarnation.

Kubo seems to be using these ideas and using them to his own purpose. Soul Society doesn't fit nicely into the descriptions of Heaven or Asuras or Beast but seems to be aspects of all three of these things mixed together.
Correct, this is the cosmology of Samsara that I've been citing all this time.

Soul Society isn't readily analogous to Heaven, but again, if there was a heaven in Bleach then some of the more caustic points in the plot probably wouldn't have transpired. The Shinigami however correspond very well to the concept of Asuras. They're both battle-hungry and are seen as those that preside over spiritual phenomena. Opposite the Asuras would be the Devas, which are seen as more "angelic." In Bleach, the notion that Aizen would "stand on heaven" serves well to have the Arrancar be the Devas to the Shinigami being Asuras.

Beasts are beasts in both worlds => animals. Humans are obviously still humans and hungry ghosts (Gakidou in Japan) would obviously be Hollows.